Please come and talk to me. Just for some general writing chat and support...

[BiglyBadgers]

I am about a third of the way through editing my stupidly long book (this'll teach me for writing epic fantasy) and need some chat!

I really loved the chat and support on the nano thread, but now novel writing month is long gone and I am alone! There must be other people out there bumbling along needing a friend to chat to...surely....I can provide coffee, cake and excellent free WiFi

Wow! Ten story ideas is pretty exciting. Good luck with them all.

I've decided to just blast on through to my final battle rather than doing the rewrites and editing of part 2 as I think part 3 is going to be pretty short. I can then go through the whole lot. I've still not decided how the final battle is going to pan out yet though, so that'll be interesting to find out.

Well done Bigly. Ten story ideas is amazing, Tippety!

I've been a bit stalled this week. Made the mistake of opening my fantasy draft which is complete but needs much work and started thinking 'oh maybe it isn't that bad, and it is a lot nearer being submittable than your new contemporary' and now I don't know which one to focus on! Wah!

I do that too generic. I went to a talk by a writer/actor/lots of other things who said the key to her productivity is working on whatever feels easiest at the time, rather than trying to work on one thing until completion. So I try and follow the path of least resistance--do whatever my brain is in the mood for, if that makes sense.

Hey guys. How are things going? I've been on nights for the passed few days (my first ever) so completely zonked and failed to do any writing. I now have a few days off though, so hoping to get to do some more than week.

Just saw this article about the reduction in money going to published authors. Its pretty depressing, but does make me wonder if it will push the self publishing industry as where's the incentive to go through the traditional route if they aren't going to pay you enough to live one anyway. Maybe the other option is authors starting up cooperatives to form groups to publish and promote work themselves.
amp.theguardian.com/books/2018/jun/27/publishers-pay-writers-pittance-philip-pullman-antony-beevor-sally-gardner?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true

Hi Bigly. Nights is tough! Let your body catch up if you can.

I do think it's getting harder and harder to make money in this game. My goal is still some sort of traditional publishing but if I had a book I felt was genuinely strong but didn't get anywhere, I would consider self-publishing now.

The last book I actually finished I sent out to a few agents and did get some full reads and to the last round of an 'open door' type thing but no further. I was tempted to self-pub but in the end I wasn't sure that the plot was strong enough or main character likeable enough. I know you can get editors who would tell you if so, but I prefer to trust people I'm not paying for now, so I ended up trunking it.

I don't envisage writing to ever make me much, but it would be nice if it could bring in something one day.

Forgot to say about current progress, at about 17k now in contemporary book so not a lot but forwards is better than backwards. Still not sure if I'd be better off trying to fix my fantasy draft instead.

I've just ordered an iPad with the foolish idea it will help with my writing. I got made redundant a while back and saved some money for a new computer one day. But my desktop PC is fine for the time being and what I really need is something lighter I can sit with on the couch while TV binging or take to work. I'm going to buy Scrivener for it so I can carry projects across from my PC. Fingers crossed it's not a total waste of money, it's a big spend for me.

Hope the iPad does the trick. I use my phone for quick bits of writing, notes and research, but it's no good for editing and doesn't have scrivener. A tablet or really speedy light laptop is top of my wish list if I ever get any money!

Which of your books do you think would be more marketable/easier to pitch? Could that help you decide? Or which excites you more? But I'm in the same boat. Having trouble committing to a genre especially now I'm doing this flash fiction course which as you said definitely lends itself more to spec fiction. Loving the course by the way so thanks for the tip!

Bigly that article is a bit depressing, especially as the lack of pay isn't due to the normal gloom over declining book sales etc it just corporate greed! Actually I keep hearing that book sales are on the up etc. No idea how true it is but I'd like to believe it. I wonder how much of Amazon's profits are from book sales and not their other areas of business. It wasn't clear from the article.

Just about recovered from the nights now, thanks generic. I do all my writing in my tablet, with very occasional bits on my phone if I'm out and about. I don't use scrivener, just Google docs which syncs across everything. Even with my uni essays I only use the laptop for final formatting. Can't stand writing on it now I'm used to the tablet.

I've also heard book sales are going up Tippety and I do think it is basically just corporate greed and the fact that so many people just want to be published that they don't really need to bother paying people much. I follow a SF writer on twitter whose latest book is doing very well and he is very open about how despite being pretty successful he still has to do freelance copywriting and use patreon to top up his income to something he can live on.

In my fantasy dream world I would work a couple of days a week to pay the mortgage and then earn enough writing the rest of the time for everything else. I do rather like the idea of a writer's collective if you had a good group of people and publishing through that. I've seen a few set up and think it's an interesting idea with real potential for a different way of doing things.

Fascinating to know that you mostly use a tablet, that gives me hope!

I'm actually not too sure how I feel about Scrivener sometimes. I really like Google Docs for work on different machines or on the go. But Scrivener is great for organising/outlining/keeping notes together or moving chapters around. I got the pc version half price years ago with a voucher code (from a nanowrimo I think). I've really gone off Word but use it to tidy things up before submission.

I share your fantasy world. I can't imagine earning a lot but would be lovely to do it when both kids are at school around other things.

I have developed a multi-tiered filing system in docs that works well for me for organising and allows easy moving around. It just took a while for me to get it how I wanted it, but I love it now.

I get confused without Scrivener now. I need to see all my chapters and scenes down the left hand side or I feel like I'm wading through mud. To be honest I don't use many other features except that navigation and compiling to mobi for my kindle. Though I also like being able to delete all my crap and have it collect in the trash folder. I'm much braver about cutting when I know it's easy to get back.

I think it would actually be quite scary to have my whole income depend on writing. I could see myself getting a serious case of writers block if I felt like I had to write to live. Though of course if someone offered me a huge deal and a six figure advance I'd probably not say no

Yes, I sort of feel the same way Tippety. It feels a bit scary to have everything dependant on writing. Besides, I think I might lose my mind a bit if I was at home all day on my own with my epic fantasy. Having to go out and speak to other people is important for my continuing sanity.

Hello? Is anybody out there? I'm coming to my last scene in first draft mess. I think I'm going to be spending the next few years rewriting this monster into something vaguely presentable.

Good work bigly, you're storming it. How many words does it come to?

I'm still here ... finished the flash fiction course generic recommended. I really enjoyed it. It was fun being pushed to do things out of my comfort zone. Made me think about the way I write and realise that while I think I'm a pantser who knows how to add conflict to a scene, that isn't actually true. I'm a pantser because I write romance and so I know the inherent story structure and how it's going to end without needing to plan anything. True pantsing is scary! And I'm a wimp when it comes to conflict. I need to be braver and not worry so much about realism at the expense of story.

As well as those insights I'm now the unproud owner of 4 dire 500 word flash fiction stories and one that needs to be scaled up to about 800 words to work. No idea what I'm going to do with them. Might try the process taught in the course again and see what I come up with.

Inspired by taking that course I've also just started a short course through Futurelearn called 'how to make a poem'. Figure I might as well slay all my writing demons at once.

That course sounds good. Maybe I might give it a go once I have my first draft tidied up a bit just as a bit of a palette cleanser. I think I might fancy just doing some flash bits of a while. I have never really managed to get the hang of poetry. I always feel a bit self conscious about it for some reason. Let me know how the futurelearn course is and maybe I'll pop it on my list of things to give a go at some point.

My current word count is around the 162k and I reckon I have another 5-10k to go depending on how the last bit goes. But oh my gosh, it needs a lot of work. I think I need to get it all in some sort of order and then read through the whole lot, and then work out an editing plan. I was reading a blog post by someone who edits in stages, looking at different elements each time. So an edit for characters, and edit for worldbuilding, etc. I think this might be the way forward, so I think I'll start thinking about how I plan it and work through stage by stage.

I've also just made a list of books to read as prep for my November nanowrimo, which I am sooo excited about. I am going to binge classic noir detective novels for the next three months

Wow 162k is a good body of work. Are you going to start another novel in November then? Is the plan to have this one edited by then or work on them concurrently?

Yeah the course was fun. It's quite a strange course, not what I was expecting. Very ... straight talking? Pragmatic? She basically gives you a process. I think I got the best out of it when I laid all my preconceptions and personal opinions at the door and just did exactly what she said. I have to say after being scared of short fiction for ages and not seeing the point of it I'm a bit in love with the idea now. The thought that I could have an idea and make it into a story in a few hundred words/a few days instead of having to write a whole novel is quite exciting! I can imagine it'd be quite freeing and I'd take more risks and write stranger/bolder stuff.

I started the poetry course yesterday so it's early days. It's only a 3 week course and suggests 3hrs per week so not a huge commitment. But I am an enjoying it so far. I've just written my first ever 'found poem', which is the first poem I've written in about 20 years!

Both short stories and poems are areas I've always been clueless about. I've been thinking for a while that I'm not a 'proper writer' (whatever that means) if I've not at least dabbled in them.

My plan is to carry on putting this into some sort of order until November and then start a new piece for nanowrimo and take a bit of time off this one before coming back for serious editing. My nanowrimo is going to be a shortish (50-80k) first person fantasy noir detective novel. Nice and self-contained. It's using a minor character from my epic piece and set in a city that is used a lot in my epic. So basically it's a nice little break from the huge sprawling mess I am currently working on, but same world and stuff so not too much work needed there. I'm really looking forward to it and I think I need to step back a bit from this piece and take a break so I can see it properly again.

I know what you mean about not feeling like a proper writer. I was talking to someone about writing and they asked if I wanted to help with a poetry workshop and I was forced to confess that I really don't do poetry. I felt like a bit of a fraud, but it has made me want to give it a go again. It is used a lot in theraputic writing as it's short and good for creating something meaningful in an hour long workshop, so feel I should at least give it a shot. I do really like flash fiction, even though I haven't done any for a while and I don't know I'm particularly good at it. Doing short flash stuff got me into the creative writing in a nice easy way when I was a bit overwhelmed by the thought of a whole novel. Mine do tend to end up a bit conceptual, though there was one I really liked and would quite like to do something longer with.

I've signed up for the poetry course on futurelearn and really enjoying it! I'm writing my found poem and it's very exciting.

Yay! Glad you're enjoying it. I really liked the found poem too. Got to the bit now about metre and form and my head hurts a bit (plus realising how completely ignorant I am about poetry) but still really enjoying it. I can say things like 'I enjoy the insistancy of the ghazal form'

Sounds like a good plan for your books. I'm a big believer in 'putting it in a drawer' for a long time before editing. And what else are you going to do in the meantime but write another book?! I found too that working on the next one somehow clarified what I wanted to do with the first one (because they were quite different) and of course I carried on learning while writing the second one so I knew a bit more when it was time to edit the first. Still need to actually do it though and write the last few chapters!

I also saw futurelearn have an introduction to screenwriting course but that would be taking constructive procrastination a tad far...

I've just signed up to the poetry one! I enjoy reading it, but have never understood it from a writing perspective so this should be interesting.

Accidentally started writing a flash story again when I'm supposed to be working on novelly stuff, but novels are hard. I did read and make revision notes on all my fantasy wip chapters which is some progress. I'm trying to write a synopsis for it now based on what I'm going to change so I can see how it hangs together.

Have ignored contemp novel for a bit but do mean to look at it this weekend... maybe... :D

Glad the flash course was useful Tippety! One of my five got cut down to 300 words which I sold to mslexia and I think ALL the rest got binned. HL is v plain speaking. She must also make a lot of money selling writing courses. I liked the free one but not enough to spend big bucks on all her others.

Yay for getting to the end Bigly - that's huuuuuuuge!

I can't bear the thought of Nano... I've done it a few times but only twice really successfully and those books are both long-trunked now.

For me I could only make it work if I had a super-good outline I think. Maybe next year!

I've only gone and written a flipping sonnet.

I am enjoying this poetry so much more then I expected. Having to dust of all my old poetry knowledge from my English degree though. Maybe it s a timing thing. I'm mental health has hit a bit of a wall and I'm finding long writing too much right now. Poetry is perfect.

I've only done nano once generic and loved it. This year's going to be a bit tougher just because I have quite a bit going on at uni at the same time this year, but then last year I ended up writing over 70k so I think I can relax a bit this time. I'm going to try and at least have the basics of the story sorted in my head this time, though I've never really got on with proper planning, so we'll see how they goes.

That's impressive bigly! I've tried a couple of times to write something in a form but it's so hard to make things fit. I either get writer's block or end up not being able to say what I want.

Generic writing 5 flash pieces and getting one published is a pretty good hit rate! Especially in mslexia. I'd love to read it if you'd happy to share the link or pm me?

Never done nanowrimo because I normally write as much as physically possible anyway! And I've never had a project ready to go at the right time. It does seem fun though. I like the sense of community.

I made a friend through nanowrimo last year who I still meet up with for coffee and writing chat. The community is really nice and I enjoyed having a shared goal with others for a bit.

I always wondered before how people spent so long writing a tiny poem, Tippety but now I'm starting to get it. I first wrote the sonnet in rhyming couplets and then rewrote it again as a sonnet. It's not amazing, because I was working mostly on getting the form right, but it does sort of work out. I've got one poem I started early last week that I've put quite a strict metre on and I'm still not quite done with it. I just keep picking away. It's sort of odd and also nice working on something in such minute detail after just splurging out the first draft of an epic novel.

I tried writing a poem for the exercise at the beginning of week 2 and it's pretty awful. I actually quite like my found poem from week 1 though! I find it hard to understand the different forms - at least I can read the rules and understand them on paper, but when I start to construct the poem it all goes out of my mind.

Sadly my Mslexia piece is not online. It used to be available in the sample view of that issue but I think they've taken it down. It was in issue 71 though!

With the poetry and dabbling with a short story or two, I haven't done much novel work this week but I want to tonight if possible.