Please come and talk to me. Just for some general writing chat and support...

[BiglyBadgers]

I am about a third of the way through editing my stupidly long book (this'll teach me for writing epic fantasy) and need some chat!

I really loved the chat and support on the nano thread, but now novel writing month is long gone and I am alone! There must be other people out there bumbling along needing a friend to chat to...surely....I can provide coffee, cake and excellent free WiFi

Umm...that's a complicated question Queen. The really unhelpful answer is that it depends. I have started writing scenes with no real idea of how it will end. Often I have a vague idea, like I might know that I need to get this character out of this dungeon and I have these people who are going to do it. How they do it is then worked out as I write. Or I know that a few chapters down the line I want a character to be in a particular place, so that puts limitations on what can happen in the scene (such as I can't have a character die if I want them to find the treasure three chapters later).

I don't plan it out though. I just fix a point in my mind and try and gently nudge my characters towards it. If, however, I write something and it goes in a different direction I will usually review my point to see if they needs changing. Thinking about it my points are more possible outcomes that fixed plans. They change a lot.

sorry. It sounds similar to how I'm working, I just always need that end goal in mind, even if it's vague. The way they get there seems subject to change depending on my mood I've noticed sometimes I have a very firm idea of how a scene will go and then when I write it the next day it comes out completely different.

I just had a quick look back at 12 bullet points I wrote before I started. Out of the twelve (which say things like "she sees someone and has visions...maybe more than once..?") Only about 3 or 4 have actually happened as they say and that is if I am being generous about ignoring name changes and shifts in tone.

I've noticed sometimes I have a very firm idea of how a scene will go and then when I write it the next day it comes out completely different.

Yeah, I have that a lot! Bloody characters have a mind of their own.

the first time a character stopped me and said "no I'm not doing that" scared the hell out of me. It felt like my imagination had suddenly become an independent sentient being and told me off

Thanks. New perspectives and cake both good idea. Think you're right Queen about the planning. I've come to the conclusion the problem might start earlier than this current bit so I'm going to go back to the beginning and really look at the structure and check this actually is the midpoint I should be aiming for.

I'm a complete pantser which is probably why I end up in these situations. I'm trying to learn to plan my structure more with this book, though I didn't set out that way. Sat down about a year ago with no plan in mind and wrote 30k in a couple of weeks and loved it. Then got pregnant and lost my brain to hormones etc and couldn't write a word for a year. It's been hard finding my way back into the story, especially getting my protagonist's voice which was so strong when I first started writing it.

Anyway, digressing. No my scenes never quite turn out the way I think they're going to. Often I don't have much in mind when I start a scene other than eg 'she has a bad day at work' or 'something that shows she's feeling lonely'. Sometimes I'm absolutely convinced a scene needs a certain action or line of dialogue but I can't fit it in and it turns out maybe I didn't need it after all. Sometimes the line ends up elsewhere in the story.

I've been reading this today and it's been useful so thought I'd share it. blog.janicehardy.com/2015/08/writing-basics-midpoint-reversal.html?m=1

Normally I find it hard to relate these guides to what I'm writing but this one is explained very clearly.

I'm still battling with this fight scene. I read it back today and it is terrible! The basic plot stuff is OK I think, but the writing is dire.

It's probably not as bad as you think. Try waiting a bit and working on something else then read it again and see what you think. And read it in context, i.e. read the few chapters leading into it and see how it reads as a whole. If you still think it's bad ... how about reading some fight scenes in other books that you think are good and seeing how they do it? I suck at fight scenes (my pacifist inner censor gets in the way and I like to write really long introspective sentences...) and when I was writing fantasy I used to actually type out scenes from other books to get a feel for the sentence structure, pace etc. Or watch a movie fight scene and mentally narrate what's happening. Or do something physical to get your adrenaline flowing so you're more in the zone. Or if you can write to music maybe put some thrash metal on or something . Sometimes I just rewrite a whole scene instead of trying to edit it better.

I also have problems with my inner pacifist. I just end up with everyone sitting down and haveing a nice chat or sorting out the issue without need to resort to violence. It one stage one of characters point blank refused to carry out a prison break when I had wanted one. Instead she called her lawyer and just carried out some general witness intimidation. I was

I've gone and read lots of articles about writing fight scenes and a few good examples. I have a fight, chase, confrontation sort of set up and reading it again the chase and confrontation aren't too bad, just the right bit at the start so I suggest rewritten that and I think it is a bit better now.

Thanks for talking me down Tippety

And yes, I realise I did just talk about my character as if this is a group collaboration and I have to negotiate with her.

😂 that's how it often feels though isn't it? Author/character aibu's would be a fun read

Oh yes!

"My author wants me to sleep with this guy, but I can see he's just a cocklodger. AIBU to get with the nice young man from work instead?"

"AIBU to just tell this person how I feel and save us 6 chapters of confusion and miscommunication?"

"to be honest I'd rather just save myself and let the world be consumed by a mysterious evil force. AIBU?"

It one stage one of characters point blank refused to carry out a prison break when I had wanted one. Instead she called her lawyer and just carried out some general witness intimidation.

Did her lawyer approve? Sounds intriguing.
Is chapter 3 coming up shortly-I'm looking forward to reading it.

my character is looking at me and asking me to explain why I'm expecting her to fall in love with this guy?

I said "because he's hot?" and she gave me a hard stare and told me it wasn't enough. So, yeah, my bad.

Did her lawyer approve? Sounds intriguing.
Is chapter 3 coming up shortly-I'm looking forward to reading it.

He did approve. He is very expensive, but maybe not all that upstanding in his practice.
Chapter 3 is this fight scene I'm...um...fighting with. Not sure if I'm brave enough to put it on scrib yet.

Honeyboo

my space ginger story is driving me insane. Hate fanfic, hate that other people seem to go wildly off character and just write any old stuff, because, hey, it's fanfic and I'm trying to write in character and then go mad with trying to make it work...

and romance is hard!!! And this is star wars so it's all made up, and no characters are really written to have a romantic angle ...

and my characters have said sod all to each other, only she kissed him and has had feelings for him for a long time from afar, he got kissed and sort of has feelings for her that he is too thick to really notice. He saves her from a big baddy, so then decides to fling herself at him? Currently last lines of draft are just; smut smutty smut smut.

I've never understood the point of fanfic if you go wildly off character. You might as well just write your own thing with your own characters, so I am absolutely in your corner on that one HoneyBoo. On that note what I have written below might therefore not be at all appropriate, so feel free to ignore it completely.

I really enjoyed the awkward work crush angle in the bit you put up. Who hasn't had an awkward work crush where they have put someone on a crazy pedestal? I think you can go places with the idea of her finding the crush in a vulnerable position and then following that. There is a aspect of finding he suddenly needs her help and is noticing her (yay!), but than the image she has built of him in her fantasy is cracked by him not being the superhuman perfect being (oh no! Conflicting emotions!). Rather than him saving her, maybe she has to save him in some way and than her image of him shifts, but in his vulnerability she finds something real to love.

Sigh...it's all so beautiful!

If that doesn't work I can only suggest space kittens.

problem is, he's not a perfect being... he's ruthless, ambitious, has the emotional range of an angry sandwich. So that's why I thought he needed to do something that showed he cared, even if he can't say it? She's already kissed him, and she tries to transfer so she doesn't have to face him, but he denies the request.

I was just thinking that presumably she has created an image of him that is maybe not completely based in reality. Hence the crush. Obviously I've only read that little bit, so had the impression he was in trouble and needed her to help him. Needing help can be a very attractive trait in a ruthless, emotionally stunted sandwich. Also he can then show humility towards her and a more appreciative, caring side perhaps.

Maybe not.... Space kittens it is then...

I think she is currently too nice, I think she needs to be someone who admires ambition and power in a positive way.

Why do we do this to ourselves?

Space kittens sound lovely.

Oh yes, that sounds like a super idea. They can be ruthlessly ambitious together.

It's hard to write grim-silent male leads because how do you show what they're thinking if they never speak. How is space ginger with his peers, superiors, family, friends... Does he have any times he'd let his guard down? Has he ever been in love before? Is this love or lust? Does he know what he feels? If so does he fight against it, would he see it as a weakness? None of that might be helpful but it's the sort of thing I ask myself about a love interest character. I write a lot of romance and trying to show love without having access to their POV and when they're deliberately suppressing or ignoring their feelings is hard! Are there any situations he can be in where his loyalty is tested and his reaction is surprising (even to himself). Does he seek her out? Does he have some form of mentionitis? I'm guessing their attraction is physical but what emotional needs are being met? Why do these two people fit together? In stories where women are attracted to powerful/senior men often it's the same sea that the man has chosen them out of all possible women that they like. Which makes my inner feminist balk but seems popular. Would be interesting to subvert it a bit and shift the power dynamic as bigly suggests.

As for Star Wars romance: Knights of the Old Republic! Ahh Carth Onasi, Atton Rand...

Mr Rochester is a good example of a non-nice male hero who seemingly has all the power but is surprisingly vulnerable.

*same sea = idea!

ooh you guys are great!