Rise in male créche workers

[differentperspectivesneeded]

Has anyone else noticed a rise in male créche workers in ROI, and what's the general sentiment on it?

My DC's setting has gotten two in the last few weeks, and it's the first time we've had to think about this. Small town & typically female dominated settings before. I know it's more common in the UK, but seems relatively new here?

While I see the perspective that more positive male role models are good, it does raise questions for me as to why men would put themselves through the scrutiny of entering a historically female only career for minimum wage?

Open to different perspectives on this & interested if it's more widespread in different parts of the country.

Their title is an Educator, with the same role and responsibility as any Educator in the room, just their position is a fixed- term rather than permanent one, and is funded all or mostly by the Access and Inclusion Model.
Sadly many in the sector don't see or believe in themselves or their staff as professionals, and use terms like 'AIM workers' which doesn't help change the societal view of those in the sector as ' babysitters' or 'minders'

I don’t like it. Of course this apparently upsets a lot of people because it’s “sexist” in the same way people turned a blind eye to grooming gangs because they didn’t want to be racist.

If there was a male working at my child’s nursery I’d pull them out don’t care who that offends

Why do women work in factories? It's minimum wage and traditionally male dominated.

Maybe they are just good at it and need a job. Some people are just genuinely good with kids and enjoy it. The best person for amusing customers children at work is one of the building surveyors. Disappears and is found sitting on the floor in the kids corner, having a drawing competition with a 5 year old. He's just very natural with children.

Ludicrous post.

The reason the statistics about sexual abuse of young children in childcare settings are low is because it's nearly all women. The occurrence of sexual abuse of children rises exponentially when men are the carers of very young (pre-verbal) children. It's only recently that men have started to be employed ingreater numbers in nurseries, and how many stories of male nursery workers being convicted of raping and sexually assaulting nursery children has there been in the last few months?

Absolutely no way in hell would I leave my baby or toddler with a male carer.

And I just knew this sort of bonkers post would be written by someone who uses the term "gender" instead of sex.

You’d think a country with a history of sex abuse by men in charge of children would know better, but apparently not.

It’s just a fact that men are way higher risk as a category. Why should young children be put at risk so men feel included? Fuck that.

Who cares why women work in factories? My toddler’s safety is not affected by some women working in a factory

Your child is at about 50 or 100 times the risk of a sex crime if they are looked after by a man than a woman.

And unfortunately, the men who want to sexually assault children who can't tell on them will actively seek out a job where they have small pre-verbal children in their care.

Male teachers/priests/scout leadets/nursery workers/HCPs/etc have a higher conviction rate for sex crimes against children than astronauts/mechanics/train drivers/project managers. This is either because men can't help themselves when presented with the opportunity that increased access, 121 with children, gives them, OR, it's because bad men seek out jobs where they can access children. Neither of those reasons can be considered an acceptable risk for me.

I think any man who specifically chooses, out of all the ones available, a specialism where he knows that a lot of women will be uncomfortable with his presence (because the woman is so exposed and vulnerable in a uniquely female way) is not a man that I would choose to have as my HCP.

I agree @Boolabusi work in this sector. One reason I think its good to have a mix of workers is because sadly when it's 'women's' work it's ok to pay a low wage. When it becomes a male industry or half and half everyone will be talking about the wages and salaries will increase plus benefits, all of which will need public funding because the current model doesn't work. Childcare and it's cost is always seen as a women's issue, either a working womans problem or a low paid women's job. If it becomes more mainstream we might actually get sick leave or pensions or god forbid any perk at all, plus a decent wage.

I don't get the suspicion of why would a man take a low paying job, that's just sexist crap. Relatively speaking, teaching primary school doesn't make anyone a fortune and no one complains about men doing this. Yes younger children are more vulnerable but so are non verbal children and adults and elderly or those with MH issues. Yet we have many male psychiatric nurses, no one takes issue with this. No one takes issue with their child being with a male dentist or doctor alone, no one knows what goes on in an operating theatre but I've never heard someone suspect their paediatrician. When all men are banned from being around all children regardless of their social status and qualification then it's a fair argument.

Your toddlers safety is not affected by their nursery worker being male either.

Anyone who has recently worked in a nursery would know that male or female, you are never alone with a child. Even for nappy changes, which the male staff mostly don't do anyway. There's a screen for privacy but you're still visible to the other staff.

I'm against male nursery workers. I would prefer that female nursery workers were valued, and paid a high wage.

As this Australian study (PDF link) shows, 4% of men would "have sexual contact with a child younger than 10 years if no one would find out." Additionally:

• "Men with sexual feelings towards children who have offended against children [...] had 2.73 greater odds of working with children compared to men who did not have sexual feelings or offending with children."
• "Men with sexual feelings who wanted help were more than twice as likely to work with children compared to men with sexual feelings who didn’t want help." So, at least 5.46 times as likely as men without sexual feelings for children.

If you combine both those who have offended and those who haven't (yet) but have paedophiliac feelings, it averages out at them being around 4 times more likely to work with children than men without sexual feelings for children.

I believe that means that, statistically speaking, a rough estimate of 16% of male nursery workers will have a sexual interest in prepubescent children.

Do we mean nursery staff? Afterschool/holiday club staff?

If so, DS is 20 and there were several male staff when he was in nursery and school. All of them excellent, whilst it's a female dominated profession on the whole it's certainly not a job area I find odd or unexpected for a man,

I appreciate the additions to the debate, but just to make sure everyone has realized this is on the craicnet board and ROI specific (question centres on changes to cultural norms & societal views). Lots of nursery terminology which isn't typical here.

That being said I do value everyone's input - especially those who have recent real world examples as that's most useful.

And yet @Balloonhearts there have been cases recently in the media of toddlers being abused in nurseries by men.

I have to be honest that it makes me extremely uncomfortable. We had a male nursery worker with our dc and I just didn’t feel comfortable about it. The nursery had stringent rules - nappy changes in the open, 2 workers on toilet duty so I felt comfortable that nothing untoward could happen.
Much prefer male teachers at primary school over nursery level.

There is a push for the Government to take the CF funding for wages, increase it and take over the wages directly. National Wonens Council as part of the the Alliance for Public (Childcare) had it as part of their launch and SIPTU National Committee voted to campaign for same.
The ERO doesn't work given how employers probably not even in CF can hold the 45 million to ransom by not engaging with the JLC

How about the fact there is regularly reports of men caught viewing child abuse images but seems to be much, much more rare to have a woman caught. This indicates men in general are a much greater risk

Ira naive to think children are safe even with this in place. My child was abused as a baby in a creche in Ireland - physically abused- there were two people in the room- it was caught on CCTV. The presence of a witness and CCTV didnt stop it happening- i had wrongly thought my child was safe there.

We need proper and effective safeguarding when it comes to protecting children from predators. Males, statistically, are more of a threat to children than females are and this basic information should not be disregarded simply because we want to be seen as progressive or because we wish the world was otherwise than it is.

We have to live in reality. While it's not pleasant to consider the possible intentions of fellow citizens in this way, it is practical to realise that there will be predators looking for loopholes, flaws, and inadequacies in child safeguarding measures and so we should write policies with the worst case scenario in mind and then enforce them without allowing laxity to creep into the system.

A case of a male behaving inappropriately with children in a Donegal nursery has been covered in the press just this week:
https://businessplus.ie/news/transgender-childcare-worker-sacked/

This would be a hard no from me.

I absolutely agree that our children deserve to be safeguarded. But I do find some of the attitudes on this thread to be a little naive. I think children at school are just as vulnerable. High school kids are capable of being groomed and there is far less oversight than at a childcare.

I do have a personal story of a male family member who works in childcare. He entered the profession in his 40s after working in an adjacent health care field which involved testing pre-school children to ensure that met the health guidelines. He left that role to work in the same field but with adults, did not enjoy that job for a variety of reasons (including management issues) but also realised that one of the things he really missed about his old role was working with kids. There was no change of getting his old job back as it had been filled and to get similar work, he and his family would have had to move. So he retrained in childcare. He absolutely loves working with kids. He has dyslexia so decided against retraining as a teacher as he did not think he would be suited plus he would have had to relocate to a new area to retrain.

He is definitely aware of the perception many people have of male childcare workers, follows all his centre's safeguarding practices and is very careful and intentional about his interactions with the children to avoid any accusations.

He would definitely agree that men are a greater risk but not just at childcares.

That sounds like the set up in one specific nursery, you can't really say 'all nurseries' based on one.
The three nurseries I know best have separate bathrooms.
You are alone in sleep rooms.
If children are in the garden and one or two need toileting then only one adult goes inside with them.
Male workers have exactly the same duties and expectations as female workers.

I've worked in many nurseries and schools over 20 years and have actually not ever seen one where staff are never alone with children.

Thank you to everyone for adding to the conversation. A reminder this was asking for specific, ideally lived, experiences of male workers in créches in the ROI. A wider discourse on the place of men in female dominated roles would be better situated to AIBU or the feminism boards.

@Trappedtrapped I'm so sorry to hear that happened to your little one. 💔

@UtopiaPlanitia I saw that in the news & was horrified! I do think that trans workers are an even more specific subset needs to be considered in safeguarding. While not politically popular to say in Ireland, it's proven there's a whole host of underlying mental health issues in most cases.

A male foreign student just started working with me. I'm in a creche but with the older pre school room, so most kids are starting school soon. I've noticed a new enthusiasm among the older boys who are really engaging with him, kids who previously have appeared to have outgrown the room. Its been a positive shift in energy so far. As he is a student, he doesn't count for our ratio so cannot be alone in any area, in any circumstances. So far no one has said anything negative, parents have not commented and I think that's a good thing.