Rise in male créche workers

[differentperspectivesneeded]

Has anyone else noticed a rise in male créche workers in ROI, and what's the general sentiment on it?

My DC's setting has gotten two in the last few weeks, and it's the first time we've had to think about this. Small town & typically female dominated settings before. I know it's more common in the UK, but seems relatively new here?

While I see the perspective that more positive male role models are good, it does raise questions for me as to why men would put themselves through the scrutiny of entering a historically female only career for minimum wage?

Open to different perspectives on this & interested if it's more widespread in different parts of the country.

Really interesting thoughts onto this thread - some very divisive. First @pontipinemum I'm very sorry to hear what you went through. 💐

& agree with a lot of PP that not all men are problematic - my own DH is wonderful, kind and a brilliant father.

My own unease has been summed up really well by @UtopiaPlanitia I think. While not all men are dangerous, I feel safeguarding needs to operate to prevent any possibility of harm happening to children. Statistically men are more likely to be perpetrators.

Children are so vulnerable when they're not able to communicate properly, need help with toiletting, and are still establishing understanding of body boundaries and safe adults. For that reason I do see male workers in primary vs crèche being two distinct topics. The primary my DC will go too has male workers, and I don't view that as a concern.

When I chose their crèche because there were no male workers associated with it. Obviously it's thrown me a bit that there now are, and I appreciate everyone taking time to share their views.

I would not be happy.
I would only agree to a male creche worker being the cook, gardener etc. and under no circumstances left alone with any child.
Most men are not perverts but statistically most abusers are men. So the risk is too great for me.

Most happens within a family because that is the setting where men have easiest access to children.

In early years settings, the vast majority of sexual abuse is carried out by the tiny proportion of male staff.

I appreciate everyone's points that abuse is more likely to happen outside of a crèche than in it, even with male workers. Like most mums, I do my best to appropriately assess and respond to risk in all areas of life. Specifically I wanted this thread to gather opinions and safeguarding practices for créches with male workers, as it's a new experience for me.

For those of you that are saying you're fine with it and it should be common practice, are there any safeguarding measures that have made you comfortable thinking this way?

I certainly prefer female to male gynaecologists. However, gynaecology has always been dominated by males, this has changed only recently, so it's not unusual for a man to want to be a gynaecologist. Midwifery on the other hand has always been female, and I find it very suspicious if a man wants to be working with women at such an intimate moment of their lives. A midwife will often spend many hours with a labouring woman, a gynaecologist will not even be present unless there is something very specific and usually surgical that needs doing. The two don't compare in my opinion.
There is also a thing called birth fetish and it seems obvious men with this fetish would be attracted to midwifery!

The safeguarding guidelines are very robust and every service will have their own child protection policies which you can ask to view. Every service should also have their child safeguarding statement on the wall to publicly view in their service. Every staff member has to be Garda vetted so you can query how up to date this is, it needs to be very two years, you can also ask about their child protection training which needs to be done every two years by a Tusla registered trainer. You can also view their Tusla inspection reports online. You can ask questions about room ratios, look for their nappy changing policy and so on. No staff member should ever be on their own with a child.

Personally I would like to ask the thousands of parents across the country who leave their child with unvetted, unregulated childminders and aupairs how they ensure their child is safe?

Yes I prefer a female gyne too but don't find a male one creepy. Yes a midwife stays with you through labour but more often then not so does your partner or birthing partner you're rarely alone. On the other hand I have always been on my own with my gyne and obstetrician appointments.

However, gynaecology has always been dominated by males,
Midwifery on the other hand has always been female
So nothing should change?

I find it very suspicious if a man wants to be working with women at such an intimate moment of their lives
So it is a weird a man might also want to be able to support, assist and experience childbirth first hand? I suggest you speak to male midwives and ask them why they chose to specialise in midwifery I think you'll find they're not weird and do it for the same reasons women do. Do you feel make obstetricians are weird?

Some very old fashioned views on this thread.

It’s been widely reported that pedophiles discuss in dark web chat rooms about how to get these jobs. The fact they pass a DBS check means fuck all, it just means they haven’t been caught. Think hard about why any man would want to change shitty nappies for minimum wage.

My dc are pretty much grown up now but I wouldn't be happy with men in a nursery setting. Its all very well talking about having safeguarding in place but I used to work in childcare and knew lots of people who worked in creches, half the time they didn't have full staff and best practice was ignored. Paedophiles are drawn to places were they can have access to children, yes its discrimination to ban men from early years settings but personally I wouldn't give a fuck, I wouldn't risk my dc's well being.

Yes let's preserve the shitty nappy changing on minimum wage for the women.

Anyway why the need to reduce a professional career in early childhood care education to changing nappies? I think people need to look at the qualifications in early learning and care nowadays and what the curriculum covers.

@Deadringer how long ago are you talking? Are you in the UK? Yes it's all down to choice and no we can't discriminate based on gender but as I said up thread I would be far more concerned about child protection with using unregulated childminders yet thousands do which I find strange.

@Boolabus great points to consider, thank you. I certainly think I would have felt better if my DC's crèche led with their safeguarding policy when I asked about male hires, though I also realize I probably didn't ask clearly enough for that specifically. Because their safeguarding policy has never been the forefront of their communications before, it's left me with doubt.

I definitely would have less - no concerns if I knew there'd never be a 1:1 ratio for example.

I do feel this thread has devolved in to a wider convo on men in traditionally female spaces. I understand there's really strong opinions on that either way, but I simply wanted to sense check this specific area.

My takeaways from reading the different views are it's a positive thing to have men in this area - if it's proactively communicated to parents. Part of my personal discomfort was that it wasn't flagged until I asked. I also feel the safeguarding measures should be robust and actively communicated, which I don't feel like they were in my case. I still think toiletting care and 1:1 ratios should be avoided to protect all involved.

Plenty of food for thought.

No crèche worker regardless of gender should ever be on their own with a child for a variety of reasons, so definitely ask about it but that is the norm.

for what it’s worth, there’s a few male staff in my children’s crèche who are brilliant. They do only work in the older rooms which might be to help mitigate concerns like this but that’s never been said outright

@almay I've had my DC in two different settings (childcare shortage - necessity for a while) and across both it was common for them to have 1:1 time. Their latest actually has a sensory room where children who are struggling are brought by SNAs for 1:1 regulation, though my DC have never used it as far as I'm aware. If they're in first in the AM they help their teacher put out the bowls of cereal by themselves.

Is this not common in other placements? I didn't think there were any regulations about it?

Edited to add thank you! Good to hear of positive experiences too.

Husbands nephew does it. He’s 23 and put it this way he was never allowed alone when ours were smaller. Just the vibe was off about him. He’s very socially inept, almost childlike himself with a bit of a sly side. Me and my husband regularly shudder when we think of him at work.

Definitely not in ours anyway there’s always at least two teachers in a room and they all have windows in between each so even if someone was on their own for a short while, everyone can see in from both the corridor and the other rooms.

where there are vulnerable children there will be predatory men.

There are always adults 1:1 in early years settings unless they are massively overstaffed.

@BurnoutBee well that's terrifying! Is there any anonymous way you could submit commentary on it?

@almay sounds like a great format. Ours is seperate rooms off the corridor, some share a garden space but they don't interconnect.

@kscarpetta I don't see how they couldn't potentially be 1:1 at times - especially during toiletting as the stalls just aren't big enough. The toilets are off each room in our setting, so there's usually 1 minder in the main room & 1 helps with toiletting from what I've seen.

Ironically @Boolabus I felt safer with my DC in a private childminder. I had initial concerns about it but had no choice for one of my DC - couldn't get them a setting until they were 3 despite signing up while pregnant. I checked references, got referred from someone I knew, checked the house, asked all the questions, met the DH (who I already vaguely knew of through their own DC). It was also a deciding factor for me that they had grown children and our childminder took care of grandchildren over the years - a continued strong relationship. It was like a second home, and if I could afford it I would send all my DC there, including after playschool because of how much my DC thrived there. Alas it's 3 times as much as créche.

@differentperspectivesneeded

No, as he hasn’t ever done anything. It was just us, our own instinct. He’s the family odd ball. It’s quite obvious he’s socially inept and child like but the nursery has still employed him so there’s nothing much to be done I guess. He was never allowed alone with our children when they were small. He was quite a bit older and he would hit them or push them off chairs when we weren’t looking. Just a bad vibe.

I finished up in childcare about 10 years ago but still know people who work in creches, every one of them hates their job. Not the kids or the actual work, but the settings, the management etc. I am in Ireland btw. Childminders are a roll of the dice, but the ones I know are fabulous, knowledgeable, dedicated and kind.
My distrust of male childcare workers is really just an extension of my increasing distrust in men in general tbh, sad but earned unfortunately.

I mean this as no disrespect but the man who abused me as a child was seen as a bit of an oddball but harmless, a joker, maybe even a bit childlike himself. Please raise any concerns. You don’t know he hasn’t ever done anything, nobody does until they do and either get caught or the victim comes forward.

There are no SNAs in the Early Years sector in Ireland. Unlike schools you cannot work in a childcare setting without a qualification.
The majority of males working in the sector in my experience are qualified Spanish primary school teachers ( because they earn minimum 17.50 as a Graduate Lead, but would be less at home and much harder to find a job there, plus working in an English speaking country is an advantage in their aspanish job search down the line), and some Irish that are using the degree as a roundabout route to primary school teaching as places in the primary degrees are so limited, lots of females working temporarily in Early Years here for those same reasons.
If you could prevent your creche from hiring men you are probably looking at them closing that classroom on a semi-regular or even permanent basis due to the hugexstaffing crisis.
I don't think parents have any idea how much of a knife edge staff are working on these days in many services, id be more worried about the fact that many services no longer alllow parents inside so things like hiring of staff that can't communicate the basics in English, (which you will see on inspectorate reports )or operating over ratio regularly aren't noticed. Those are more likely threats to affect a child's emotional and physical wellbeing than a male paedophile.

@MILLYmo0se is it AIMs workers that's the right terminology? That's a really grim depiction. 💔 Fortunate that my DC's setting has none of the above issues, as far as I can tell.