Are London Irish really Irish ?

[OpheliaWasntMad]

What do people born in Ireland think?

I’m Northern Irish, born and bred, and from a Unionist background. It was the shock of my life when I moved to the UK and realised that the English considered me Irish. It’s taken me decades to get used to being Irish, and to stand up for Northern Irish being a valid “type” of Irishness.

It’s funny - my grandparents born before Partition were Unionist but perfectly happy calling their children Kathleen and the like. Irishness wasn’t incompatible with other political views, if that makes sense?

It makes total sense @shockeditellyou and I’ve heard other northern Irish people from a unionist background say the same.

The Gresham ? Think it’s a Sainsburys now .
Definitely those old halls were a time warp . But I think younger London Irish were generally going to more contemporary stuff ..

I'm born and bred in N.Ireland but lived in england for some years due to uni and work.

When in London I loved the irish communities and I really appreciate bumping into people who have roots or family in Ireland and talk about holidays over there or snippets of family history. Its lovely.

Where I do heavily roll my eyes is when I meet someone (hate to say it but usually american, though I was cornered by a english man once) and they loudly declare "oh im irish" despite having never spent more than a weekend in Dublin and their link is a great, great grandfather and then proceed to lecture on irish history or talk away about how their family was a big deal in Ireland with an estate or involved in some big political event while getting places and dates entirely wrong and not letting you get a word in edgeways. It happens.

Yeah that's it, Archway Tavern first then the Gresham, The National in Kilburn and the Galtymore in Cricklewood - time warps 😂

Not as much as Brummie Irish. We are a thing 😉

My Grandparents were Irish.

I am English but there’s certain things we/I do that comes from our Irish roots.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5226607-eating-out-with-kids?reply=140419920

It’s threads like this that makes me think ‘ah, maybe because we’re Irish we do things differently’.

I couldn’t imagine being offended because my SIL placed a niece/nephew next to me. I’d be too busy cutting up their food whilst moaning at my brother giving my baby a sip of his Guinness.

We are all from the WORLD

"Nationality" was another box ticking thing that was invented by someone, to divide us and make us put ourselves into a tiny box.

Not Irish if born in London, raised in London and live in London. But your parents might be Irish, and you have an Irish connection and ancestry.

My parents were born in Poland. I was born in London, raised in London, studied in London and work in London, I pay in to the British tax system and, if needed would be supported by the British welfare system. I am British with a polish family connection.

I’m not sure it’s as simple as that. What about if you feel Irish by connection,experience and upbringing
Irish parents,Irish heritage and culture but UK born doesn’t render one not Irish. It’s more nuanced
Okay, you’re clear you feel British, identify British and that you’re British with Polish connection
But what if that is not case for everyone?

https://circus250.com/shows/am-i-irish-yet

Looks interesting…

Yeh they are. Look at the head on Shane McGowan, God rest him.

But in seriousness, if someone has relatives from Ireland, they have been exposed to the culture and feel a connection to Ireland, they’re Irish in my book.

It varies imo. I met many people with Irish surnames who had never been here and weren't especially interested. Conversely I have met some with English surnames who knew the history inside out and had the cúpla focal. Eventually I twigged it : it is mothers who are the bearers and transmitters of culture imo. With honorable exceptions like the father of Seán Óg O hAilpín.
To me it runs - or doesn't- in families. And the diaspora can be more tuned into it that some native born people. I remember being surprised when Luke Kelly said Liverpool and Newcastle upon Tyne were more Irish places than Dublin. Maybe this is what he was getting at? Anyway what we think is irrelevant to the London Irish. They will still be defined as Irish by other Londoners whether we or they like it or not!

😂 Brilliant. Yes there's some truth in that picture. I remember being in some pub in Hornsey Rd where oul wans and fellas were getting all nostalgic listening to Danel O Donnell. Lads - it's only an hour from Stansted! But in fairness , that godawful boozer was the first place I heard people speaking Irish in a social setting. Young Irish and 2nd generation preferred bands like the Stunning or the Frames. I saw the Pogues in 84 and lots of the crowd were teenagers in Arsenal or Celtic tops. Shane was wasted and virtually inaudible of course but it didn't matter since the kids were singing all the lyrics ! Which is more than can be said for me.

Great post @Abhannmor
I had never thought about it but you could be right - it’s might indeed be the mum who raises kids Irish, with some exceptions of course.
Certainly being known as the “Irish mammy” rings true in my ears!

Well @MoreCraicPlease as you know one has to have a Jewish mother to be Jewish. My man's comment- ' they're right too, it's a wise man that knows his own father!'

Just because you're born in UK doesn't make you British. Depends on your citizenship. Mine were born in UK but don't have British citizenship.

My grandparents were Irish and came to live in London, their 2 oldest were born in Ireland but my mum and aunt were born here, they act more Irish than actual Irish people I know ! They've hardly been to Ireland in recent years and I think they believe Ireland is still like it was in the 80s or the Ireland of their parents generation.
I do think you can feel affiliated to both countries, even despite difficult histories, some friends of my mum's who live in Camden even complain how there's now to many coffee shops instead of Irish bars 😂

@Letsgodancing I have a Scottish friend who says that about Hackney!

London and lots of the UK is unusual in that the Irish community is really big.
I'm Irish by birth and upbringing but have been in London for a long time. For me, people brought up in the UK with both parents Irish are the most similar to what I'd consider Irish, like me.
Their phrases, values and cultural nuances.
Other people with one parent or grandparent often have aspects of this but seem more English to me.
I have some English second cousins with an Irish grandfather and they often give their kids Irish names but spell or pronounce them wrong. I don't like hat kind of 'Irishness'.