Boys outperforming girls in science & maths in Ireland. Why?

[TheWiseFish]

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2024/12/04/boys-are-outperforming-girls-in-maths-and-science-at-second-level-why

Why what? What is the actual question here?

Why are boys outperforming girls? This had levelled out .

I know that there has been a stark gender gap since Project Maths was rolled out. I'm a STEM lecturer in NI and have been in occasional meetings with colleagues down south, it's seen as a very serious issue but I don't know if there's much intention to change things.

All the girls schools i went to see with DD had no computer room. The best had a trolley with ipads, the worst has a few old laptops to share. So the computing doesn't surprise me at all. The maths does, the all girls schools by me are serious academic hothouses and it odd that girls overall are falling behind.

It's surprising isn't it.
@BarbaraHoward could you please elaborate on Project Maths ? How come boys are still overperforming but not girls?

Primary teacher here. Really surprised as I thought we'd turned it round...but.. over 20 years teaching, I'd have to say my best maths students in that time were largely boys..

@TheWiseFish I'm very far from an expert on the topic, but the people I was speaking to put it down to the focus on problem solving questions. Which is a brilliant thing in a maths syllabus, but girls are perhaps less likely to have a punt under exam conditions. Whether the gender gap still exists in pupils also taking, say, physics I've no idea.

@mikado1 AFAIK the gap had been closed but project maths had really backfired in that respect.

Well my eldest is 16 he is in an Educate together. Up until this year it was fairly even in the top marks in maths between the lads and lasses.

This year in 5th he is in higher level there is only 8 of them no girls. He did ask a mate of his and she just said not interested, too much of a pain.

He was a bit confused as they had a healthy competition going in maths, the extra points etc. He is doing physics also and no girls. And only one is doing PE exam.

School is new enough and they have been trying to encourage them to go for subjects they enjoy.

I am in third level it is an ongoing issue.

@Marblesbackagain that is very interesting & reflects exactly what the article is saying. Does your sons school offer applied maths also?

Boys tend to do better in maths and sciences, and girls tend to do better in humanities and arts. Not really a shock?

Well it is as girls had started to match boys in maths & science and now have fallen behind them again for some reason

I believe so they have a huge selection of subjects. They are very lucky.

Perhaps people are going back to what is more natural to them without as much pushing and incentivisation. Bell curve accepted of course but boys generally naturally excel at maths and science more and girls more humanities. Just human nature. I say that as a girl that preferred maths and sciences.

The swing has been sudden and significant in Ireland though (significant in both the statistical and colloquial server), so it does need to be investigated.

It's having knock on effects, with third level mathematical courses struggling to recruit young women. North of the border we've seen no such change (except interestingly in the year recruited during covid but that may be a coincidence). Our entry requirements for a mathematical course are very high and the female students have always been just as highly achieving as the guys.

I did see research on I think cedefop that showed a correlations between mothers education attainment and daughters in particular. I must go look it up again.

I do think there is still a job to be done on the negative languages around math.

Yes I think mother's education is well known as one of the nicest determinants of educational outcomes globally.

Well according to a lot of posts on here what is the point girls are only on earth to breed and care for the next generation, also this not explain it totally but when girls are young what presents are suggested for them science related or hair straiteners, make up, skin care, spa days etc.

Sure women can do both but what is the default with it comes to girls?

Biggest determinants, not nicest.

Totally agree that that's a part of it, but again the switch in the results in Ireland has been much more sudden than any trends in parenting would cause. It must be a syllabus issue.

Previous studies have shown that girls and boys have equal ability at a young age but by the end of primary, begin to doubt their ability. Classroom behaviours, unconscious bias and cultural influences have a large impact on how girls approach maths, are encouraged and what they believe about themselves, their own abilities, gender based expectations and future careers.

Female students continue to be faced with the beliefs that they are better at humanities, languages and the arts and that there is no place for them in Maths and Science.

I went to school in Ireland in the 1980's and university in the early 1990's. I struggle to see how things have not moved forward in some areas. We are seeing many more women in health sciences, especially medicine but the percentage in engineering, computing and even economics and the highly paid finance careers still remain significantly unbalanced.

Is it careers? Are girls still going into accounting or finance? Are girls doing biology still? Chemistry & physics is very niche at lc for both boys & girls.
I'm genuinely surprised at the maths.

Are boys outperforming girls in the other countries too or is Ireland an outlier in this regard?

No we are inline with oecd countries.

Have to be honest but I don’t see why it matters. Unless we’re implying that STEM is better than humanities because men generally do STEM. I’m fed up of feminism deciding anything traditionally female is automatically crap and second rate while at the same time pretending to value women.

@Happyinarcon I think you are reading this wrong. There is no reason why boys & girls shouldn't be performing equally across the board in all subjects.
Maths opens the doors to so many careers so girls shouldn't be allowed fall back. Should more time be allocated to maths in school ? Is that one way of tackling it?