TW Why limit abuse enquiry to religious schools

[EternallyConfused100]

This isnt goady and please dont flame me but i'm really curious why the abuse probe in schools is limited to only religious schools. Honestly I'm not being goady and don't disagree but I think it fails to recognise all those now adults (including myself) who were abused at the hands of lay teachers in state run schools. They will never be acknowledged and seeing how the state has challenged all the cases brought already (ironic that they accuse religious orders of doing the same) and dragged them out for years no one would bother.
I also think it gives the impression that abuse in schools was only in the past and in religious run schools by nuns and priests which leaves current and future generations vulnerable. For example this is current day Ireland https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/families-seeking-probe-into-allegations-children-were-abused-at-primary-school-1581567.html

The "State" never seems to do any wrong!

Of course all schools should be investigated but it is easier to point the blame elsewhere.
Obviously, the Catholic Church is the most notable element in those horrific cases but those schools were state funded and inspected.
I posted elsewhere about a school chaplain who is in prison for abuse, that was in a state run school. Louise O'Keefe, an abuse survivor from a state run school, has a long running campaign to hold the state accountable and has accused the state of bullying victims who come forward.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0531/1452279-okeeffe-abuse-case/

I thought the investigation was specifically about abuse by the Catholic church. Is that not the case? If it's about abuse in education, then of course it shouldn't be only religious schools.

I think it is an investigation into abuse in schools run by religious orders.
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/d0411-minister-for-education-announces-commission-of-investigation-to-be-set-up-and-report-of-scoping-inquiry-to-be-published/

Because (in this case) the topic of the investigation is sexual abuse in schools run by religious orders, not just abuse in schools in general. Should they all be investigated? Yes, but it’s not remiss for this specific investigation to be taking place.

Thanks everyone appreciate your opinions.

You see that's what I don't understand. It should be abuse in education as a whole. No doubt there was widespread abuse across all schools and I think it another "oh look over there" by our dear leaders so the sheeple don't ask questions about widespread state neglect past present and future across education, health etc etc

Does anyone know a source of critical analysis of current affairs in Ireland. I'm fed up with MSM parroting what they are fed and not analysing or challenging it.

I fully agree op. I think anti catholic sentiments play a much bigger role than a desire for justice for the victims.

I’m not defending the Catholic Church for a second, but ignoring other sectors re-traumatises those victims.

imo the problem lies with the media because they are the ones with the power to bring raise these questions and amplify the voices that demand justice for all.

I believe the reason for the inquiry is because there were hundreds of allegations of abuse being made by men who attended schools run by religious orders.

Have their been similar allegations about non religious schools?

The thing is most schools were/are religious so they probably won't do a separate one for non religious ones.

Not to the same scale but there were a lot primary schools especially that weren't religious run. Louise O'Keefe was in a state run school and she has said that the state have tried to bully state school victims into silence.

Not to the same scale but there were a lot primary schools especially that weren't religious run. Louise O'Keefe was in a state run school and she has said that the state have tried to bully state school victims into silence.

There definitely weren't a lot of primary schools that weren't religious run. 89% of children in Ireland attend catholic ethos schools. Only 5% of schools are multi ds and this is a newer thing,

I'm looking here and I don't think she was in a state run school. That seems to be poor reporting. She was not in a state run school however she wanted the state held responsible for their lack of child protection / which the court of EU rights agreed with. I would also throughly agree that the state offloaded their responsibilities for children.

'Louise O’Keeffe was the victim of a series of sexual assaults in 1973 by the school principal at Dunderrow National School, Leo Hickey. Complaints had been made against Hickey but, in line with Department of Education policy, they were directed to the local priest'

www.thejournal.ie/readme/louise-okeeffe-human-rights-ruling-leo-hickey-abuse-irish-state-1286672-Jan2014/

m.independent.ie/irish-news/state-is-failing-to-implement-european-court-of-human-rights-school-abuse-ruling-says-watchdog/a747257967.html

I lived in a rural area, outside of the towns all primary schools were state run. I can't think of any primary school that was run by a religious order, though they were under the patronage of the bishop. I don't think these come under the planned inquiry.

This investigation is harrowing... but other institutions outside of religious schools need investigating... I'd nominate Children’s health ireland

I lived in a rural area, outside of the towns all primary schools were state run. I can't think of any primary school that was run by a religious order, though they were under the patronage of the bishop. I don't think these come under the planned inquiry.

If they were under the patronage of the Bishop they were Catholic run schools.

www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/primary-and-post-primary-education/going-to-primary-school/ownership-of-primary-schools/

Yes, they had a Catholic ethos but were not run by an order, such as the Christian brothers or the Presentation Sisters. They were run by lay teachers and the parish priest would have been on the board of management. But, as far as I know, they are not coming under this inquiry.

The state gets 100% for how it rewrites history. The state outsourced all these activities so they came under a religious banner but many and in some cases all teachers in them were lay people from the community. It was human beings who carried out all this abuse in schools which were inspected and overseen by the state and they turned a blind eye.
So to focus on a small subset of schools ignores the reality for many. I can say with certainty the brute in my school was a lay man who left many with mental and physical scars.

I definitely agree that they should expand the enquiry to all schools. The state had ultimate responsibility for this. This should never be able to happen again.

Are they only investigating boys? I've read horrific statistics on abused boys but can't find the information on girls.

Yes, they had a Catholic ethos but were not run by an order, such as the Christian brothers or the Presentation Sisters. They were run by lay teachers and the parish priest would have been on the board of management. But, as far as I know, they are not coming under this inquiry.

I get what you mean. These are not just catholic ethos schools though - they were Catholic run schools. The law in Ireland says that the patronage was responsible for what happened as the schools weren't run by the state. But yes I agree all schools should be now investigated. Limiting it to orders was too narrow. We already know that the Catholic Church has been covering up child abuse in every setting really. Now we must tackle the systemic issues that led to the abuse. The state have been offloading their responsibilities for children to outside bodies.

All this happens in plane sight but smoke and mirrors mean that most of the population think that only priests are abusers and it's going on today. The current enquiry enforces that opinion.

m.independent.ie/irish-news/parents-face-difficulty-reporting-alleged-abuse-of-children-with-special-educational-needs-at-schools/a2005477327.html

Sadly the cover up is at state level. It's today's kids suffer.

I always thought the local parish priest (nominally at least) ran the national school/ s in his parish, and depending on his individual level of interest, he could be either extremely involved in decisions affecting the school (having the last word on hiring or firing teachers, etc) or would leave a lot to the committee running the school. Same for CoI national schools.

Even county vocational education committees usually had a priest on the committee.

Yes, for example, most Comprehensive schools are also not included in the inquiry. It just doesn't make sense not to include them all.

Yes, the priest would have been on the Board of Management and would have almost certainly been the main decision maker in who got a job in the school. But, the school wasn't actually run by a religious order, instead it was under the patronage of the Bishop. So, for example on the towns, the boys schools was usually the CBS, or the girls was the Press, or the Convent school. Usually, the Principal was a member of the Order.
But in the rural areas they were just the National school. These schools would have taught a significant amount of children but are not being investigated as far as I can see.