Self ID in Ireland was 'sunk in by the back door'

[ArabellaScott]

Hello, Craicnet!

Thought this might be of interest:

Two Irish civil servants discussing trans issues, hosted by cross-governmental Proud to Work for Ireland network of LGBT+ staff networks.

From around 49 minutes:

'We were a world leader with, um, with our gender recognition bill in 2015, and uh, it it was just amazing to have self ID, and you see the the hassle that's been
caused and the uproar in in the UK when Scotland and now Wales both want to
introduce self ID, and the and the, um, Westminster government won't won't allow it.

They're taking it to to the supreme court there - it was almost a nonissue here, it was a non-issue here, although I suppose, I suppose one of the things was there was such a such publicity around the whole,marriage equality campaign that in a way we snuck that in by the back door [laughs]'.

God that's so infuriating - so much of that waffle is emotional manipulation presenting itself as 'fact'.
Did none of these's politicians fact check any of this?

Intersex not sufficiently recognised - ' 3 births in 100 are intersex-affected'.
Where are the stats on this? So essentially this person is trying to say that 3% of people everywhere are intersex? What utter bollox. Has anyone here ever come across and intersex person in their life ever? And yet 3% of people are intersex.... Also haven't intersex organisations asked to be kept out of this? And, intersex people are STILL either one sex or the other, it doesn't mean they are neither or both.

Also - Surprised to learn that 2-5 year olds 'identify'.
I mean, any parent will tell you that their 2-5 year old sometimes think they are a dinosaur. This is not news to people. They identify as all sorts of things, it doesn't mean we have to take them seriously.
What does happen sometimes in very young children is they can be noticeably gender non conforming, but any look at the research on this will tell you this is good predictor of that child growing up to be gay - there is a strong correlation, particularly in young boys who are gender non conforming. This doesn't mean they are transgender or the opposite sex. just leave them the fuck alone and they will grow up to be happy healthy gay adults.

It seems like TENI was their only consultation body on this? Why wasn't there a range of organisations, like feminist and children's organisations also consulted? So much of this was accepted at face value and not queried.

Thanks again @MarieDeGournay this is so interesting but mostly shocking and sad. I too can't believe that the government only took guidance from one single source! and one that was so inherently biased. As @HornyHornersPinkyWinky asked, where was the fact checking? Due diligence?? Surely there was an obligation there to gather all the facts (quantifiable and backed up by research) to properly debate, to critically think? and to consider how thing might play out in the future? None of this was done. Instead it's like they all gushed and congratulated each other on how progressive and woke they were. It's like they'd been caught up in a social contagion... hmm where else can we see that?
It was all so short sighted and blinkered. And I am utterly despondent at the lack of any push back from female politicians. Women and girls (and children in general) were just thrown under the bus so that they could all clap each other on the back about how enlightened they were. I wonder will they ever look back on that time and burn with shame for the way they behaved?

I don't know if I can get away with quoting Edmund Burke on MN😏
I know he's been co-opted as the guru of the Right, and I'm absolutely not a right-winger, but sometimes he just hits the nail in the head.

This could be a description of TENI's deployment of transphobic violence and anecdotal suicidal trans children to put the frighteners on the Oireachtas to make rushed and faulty laws:
It finds out imaginary beings prescribing imaginary laws; and then, it raises imaginary terrors to support a belief in the beings, and an obedience to the laws.

Obviously the committee had no knowledge about gender issues, and were ready to accept anything at all that TENI said. Anything you'd like to say about that, Mr Burke?
There is an air of plausibility which accompanies vulgar reasonings and notions, taken from the beaten circle of ordinary experience, that is admirably suited to the narrow capacities of some, and to the laziness of others.

Touché!

https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/top-stories/featured/school-of-hibernia/

Did anyone see this on the news? Of course a Transwoman had to be featured as one the 50 women🙄

Not sure if anyone on this thread has seen the article posted on the Gender Critical thread regarding the shambles of self-id here? It's behind a paywall but the poster very kindly provided an archive link. He's saying all the things we've said here recently!

https://archive.ph/jNlMQ

Just adding this here as it's somewhat relevant.

https://m.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/barbie-kardashian-appears-in-limerick-court-accused-of-threatening-to-kill-two-women/a1611534221.html

Cass Report published - wouldn't you just love to wave a copy of it under the noses of all of those legislators/medics/commentators who uncritically cheered on gender laws here? And reading the minutes of the debates, it's striking how so many asked 'but what about the children?' meaning, why isn't the legislation making it easier for children to access 'treatment pathways'.

https://gript.ie/mcdowell-says-minister-for-health-hse-and-irish-medical-council-must-halt-discredited-puberty-blocker-treatment-for-irish-children/?fbclid=IwAR2nWKm9Hp7bQpSzPr20MHysIfaBIdlahfcNIDrOvguuM3pICOX_c6d_i04

Michael McDowell calling for a halt to puberty blockers!