Referendum!

[springbrigid]

Anyone inclined to give an opinion? I am leaning towards a yes/no vote, the yes to remove what I see as sexist language in the constitution, the no because the government are so appalling in terms of providing services and rights to disabled citizens and I feel the clause is paternalistic and pushes care on families yet again

I think the same.

@VoteNONO

But if it is any case is deemed to breach the constitution. They have to deal with it.

Although they won't change the constitution, it will be a work around.

@dublincailin & will inevitably be at the taxpayers expense too..

I see some TDs and councillors (Ruth Coppinger, some people before profit politicians) have now announced they’re shifting from Yes-Yes to Yes-No due to disability and care activists

If the taxpayer will pay, we always pay.

At least that is consistent.

If anyone is in Ireland or can access the RTÉ player, there will be a special on the referendum this evening. Alannah Murray who is a disability activist and student barrister will be on it to advocate for a No for the care referendum (I think she’s advocating Yes-No overall). She has been a very strong voice re care and shared some helpful and clear summaries (eg as in these two images)

Should be of course the tax payer will pay.

I would love to know the cost of this referendum. And Sinn Féin planning another one if this doesn't pass🙄
It wasn't so long ago when the country was in full blown recession. Where is all the money coming from?

I see Ruth Coppinger and Mick Barry are urging a Yes - No vote . Ruth has in the past blocked people who questioned self ID , including PBP members , so this looks like progress of sorts?

Sorry @springbrigid cross posted there!

I'm not a fan of Ruth Coppinger or Mick Barry's politics but hats off to them for stepping back on the care referendum and listening to the concerns of people with disabilities.
https://twitter.com/RuthCoppingerSP/status/1764729361393958938?t=jDVNNssfG9WeKHBgwAdqWw&s=19
It would be great if they could also listen to what Alan Shatter or McDowell are saying but I think that is an unlikely combination of political allies.

cross post

Should have said - special on Primetime! 9:35 pm

The ‘no’ to the care referendum has an interesting mix alright! It’s striking that despite so many NGOs and political parties advocating for a yes on 42b, not a single disability organisation is

I've spent half a lifetime listening to the Thatcherite ravings of McDowell thank you. He and his ilk walked us into the banking crash and destroyed our children's future.

Of course I'm glad of his support on this issue. When it's all over he - and Leo , Shatter et al can resume bashing benefit claimants and single mothers. Still at least you know where he stands , he doesn't pretend to be lieve in social justice, unlike some.

It really does take an open mind and a great deal of integrity to acknowledge that you got it wrong, especially if the people you find yourself agreeing with are people you profoundly disagree with on everything else.
I feel the same about PBP. I don't like their political views but I agree with them on the Hate Speech laws that are coming down the line.
I find that Irish politics very rigid at the moment which is a bit depressing as a lot of people feel unrepresented by all the main parties. Those people with disabilities who are advocating for no being an prime example.
I would love to see a bit more of this level of maturity in Irish politics.

@Abhannmor
I just read back my last post.
When I speak about people getting it it wrong I was referring to Ruth Coppinger, not you, as I think it came across that way.

Thats OK @festivefavorites ! I agree that we need more mature debate.

This with bells on it.

The rush to demonise those with differing opinions only leads to division. The second you question any of the so called woke agenda you are immediately classified as far right. And there are plenty on the other side do the exact same but there isn't a single slur used by them.

An excellent example is the concerns some communities have about large numbers of asylum seekers being housed in their communities. Yes, some are downright racist, fasist, etc. However, some in the community have genuine concerns about an already overstretched local school or a GP service where it is already hard to get an appointment. If you listen to people's reasonable concerns and address them they can be brought onside, leaving the rascist, fascist etc individuals isolated and exposed for what they are. Lumping everyone who expresses a concern as far right does nothing except cause problems.

Ok, but what's annoying about this is that they should have researched it before campaigning for Yes/Yes, and based in what they felt rather than what they were told to do.
Now it just looks like they know there is a push back and going along with it so changing their minds. At least have some conviction.

Can I just say Sinn Féin & Mary Lou are very unhappy with the wording of both referendum acts.
If they are so unhappy with the wording should they not be advocating for a No vote?

Surely you can't lobby for something you disagree with especially as it involves rewriting the constitution.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/sinn-fein-to-campaign-yes-yes-in-referenda-despite-imperfect-care-amendment-1591362.html

Surely they should be campaigning No if they have any concerns whatsoever about potential new wording going on the constitution.

Very easy & especially as they are in opposition. Sinn Féin should have come out & said we are advocating an No vote as the wording is unclear. Simple.

We have no opposition in this country.

Apologies for the sp & gr typos above😉 On a quick coffee break!

I agree they should have been more careful and considerate in advance. It can't have helped that the wording was not subject to pre-legislative scrutiny as would usually be the case.
That said, to be generous-minded, maybe - like so many other people - they just didn't realise the horrific circumstances many people with disabilities and carers have to deal with, and just how strongly they refute the particular ideology of care offered in the proposed amendment.
And I think that changing their minds is far better than doubling down on the terrible terrible wording. So I'm a bit 🙄about time! But grateful

Also, I think if you're a member of a political party you're expected to have a 'party line' and policy on particular issues - Richard Boyd Barrett has said there was a 'narrow' vote within PBP on yes-yes. Clearly they don't have a highly didactic whip though seeing as some PBP TDs have said they've shifted to no-yes