Ireland is a hard place to live

[Mooshamoo]

Just watching the video of the black child being not given a medal by Irish gymnastics.

I was wondering if there is anyone else on here on craicnet, who is not Irish, living in Ireland. What your experiences are.

I think that Ireland can be a very hard place to live if you are not fully white and fully irish.

I'm half Irish. I was bullied all the way through school for not having an Irish surname. Then when I grew up and lived in the same small town, all of the same girls from my school were living in that town. And as adults they refused to talk to me.

I see the women who are fully Irish, being popular , having great lives.

To be totally acceptable and popular in ireland, you have to have a rich family, brothers/father who play gaa etc.

All the rich girls in my school hung around together. And again as adults all the rich Irish women hung around together in small town Ireland.

If you were foreign, from a single parent family, seen as poor, you were not accepted at all.

And it's who you know

I think this makes Ireland a very difficult place to live

Live999. I was born in NI and at times have had both UK and Irish passports, as I lived in both the UK and Ireland. Then I emigrated and got an Aussie passport. At various times and depending on who I am talking to I have described myself as British, Irish, or Australian, or a mixture! So the OP isn't lying, its perfectly possible to call yourself Irish or English depending on circs when you have a background like this.

Racism is vile and it happens everywhere. There's no utopia.

The victim mentality is breathtaking so hardly surprising people don't want to get involved with you OP. Please get therapy.

Of course Leo is mentioning the rise in racism as it's yet another string to pushing through his hate bill but racism is not his top motivation in pushing through the awful hate bill.

My son was born in England and we moved to Ireland and he's never had anything negative said to him about being born in the UK or having an English accent though I'm in no doubt others will have had negative incidents. Same as the regular xenophobia I experienced when I lived in the UK yet I never tarred all the English people with the one brush.

You said you couldn't win on this thread remember? I know exactly what to win means, I think you're getting me confused with someone else on this thread, and yes I know I only speak for myself, who else would I be speaking for? I was simply agreeing with one of the other posts, that is allowed, you really don't seem to like people disagreeing with your opinion

@alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 I completely understand that, this is about another thread where the OP argued she was Irish only, then she was born in England but moved here when she was 4, now shes half English half Irish but more English, resents living here, resents having to learn Irish, hates everything about this country, but won't leave

@Liv999

Re your quote: “Of course people shouldn't have to deal with racism but racism is not just an Irish problem, racism is rife in England, a lot more so than Ireland, it's a worldwide problem”

Do you have statistics to back up your claim that England is more racist than Ireland? I’d be interested in reading it if there is. And I am saying that honestly as I would be keen to see a survey that shows this as I’m always trying to re-educate myself on all these issues.

From a very brief search of the internet I’ve found a survey carried out by a reputable institution that says England is one of the least racist countries in the world and also an article saying Ireland is one of the most racist countries.

survey: this is worth a read. Ireland wasn’t included in the survey though due to lack of available / reliable data but this goes somewhat to showing how progressive the Marjory of people in England are to different races / religions:

survey:
https://www.kcl.ac.uk/policy-institute/assets/love-thy-neighbour.pdf

The below world survey shows racial equality across the world - Uk is ranked 17th , Ireland 18th. It’s interesting to note the comments about how difficult it is to measure racism - it’s not like you can say England is more racist than Ireland or vice versa.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/least-racist-countries

Now, anecdotally , my experience is that I witnessed more racism / xenophobia in 24 years in Ireland (I am white Irish so it wasn’t directed at me but towards others) than I did in 17 years in England. Now that’s purely anecdotal- I never once received any anti-Irish sentiment in all my years in England (just like there are people who have experienced no anti-English in Ireland). Now I know there are those that have the opposite experience and I believe them and accept and acknowledge their stories. For me, these were isolated incidents; the majority of people are welcoming and don’t care where you come from.

I’ve also a lot more black / Asian friends in England than I ever did in Ireland just due to fact England is much more multicultural. There was one black family in the town I lived in in Ireland who received comments about their skin colours and asking to touch their hair etc - and this was recent. It also wasn’t lost on me that the town I lived in was built on slave owners money and the slave owners’ name was still widely used throughout the country (on new housing developments / buildings etc.) The City in England I lived in had ties to slave owners but that city had gone through the transition of denaming buildings , streets etc. It didn’t even seem to be in anyone’s consciousness that the same should be done to the town I lived in in Ireland - I’m not entirely sure to be honest how widely known it was that these families had link to slave trade.

However, I do note Trinity has recently “denamed” it’s library due to the links to slave trade by the Irish man

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/27/trinity-college-dublin-to-dename-george-berkeley-library-over-slavery-links

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/07/trinity-college-reckons-with-slavery-links-as-ireland-confronts-collusion-with-empire

I just admit I didn’t know a lot about the involvement of some Irish people in slavery until the last number of years but there are lots of articles ok it out there including some very informative writings here: https://waterfordtreasures.wixsite.com/wattreasuresblog/post/tainted-by-the-stain-of-original-sin-irish-participation-in-the-atlantic-slave-trade.

As an Irish person who has lived abroad in different countries I’m always interested in educating myself on a subject I wasn’t taught growing up so I am sharing these in case anyone else is interested.

Now the truth of the matter is that England due to its history is more multicultural and there are large ethnic communities in England. That brings with it issues of racism but in my view, much more normalisation of different ethnicities living together. Ireland to me is still much more homogeneous but it is changing. It feels that Ireland is going through what England did about 20/30 years ago - increase in different cultures coming into the country. This development has coincided with the country’s worst ever housing crisis which I think has meant those less fortunate in Ireland are seeing the immigrants as heightening the problem with housing , healthcare , education etc when really the problem lies with the government’s ineptness to cater for decades for a growing population.

This is such an important topic and it’s so important to educate ourselves before saying something general like “such and such a country is more racist than the other” without exploring as much information as we can. Im
constantly learning about the country where I grew up in and the country I live in - all the good and bad. At the end of the day, both England and Ireland are full of wonderful and welcoming people who don’t see colour/religion etc as an issue ; but those people that do exist the world over and would be a$$holes no matter their nationality. The bottom line is we need to see these stories of racism / xenophobia , hear them, and learn from them to make wherever we live a better place for everyone.

I didn't say i was "Irish only" on the other thread. I said I was irish. I never said the word "only". I said I was Irish. Then I said to you on that other thread that I was born in England. And that I have an Irish passport. I am Irish and I am englishm as I have said in both threads to you.

Hi @JustAMum2003 that was a well thought out and intelligent post. Well done. That's very interesting. I'm out in the shops now but I'm going to have a proper look at what you said later today. Thanks for doing a bit of research on it. It's very interesting.

Yes you said you were Irish and attacked me for daring to suggest you may not be, but forgot to clarify you were half English also, until you were challenged by others and then admitted you were born in England, which was pretty easy to figure out in fairness

Thanks @alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 yes you are Irish English and Australian. I'm Irish and English.

Ooh lovely. What was Australia like.

"admitted that I was born in England". "Admitted". Jesus. Is that a bad thing. Do you hear how you sound.

That's not what happened actually. I remember saying on the other thread that I'm Irish.

You kept saying "I bet you weren't born here were you".

And I said " no I was born in England to Irish mother, I have an Irish passport".

Which you again completely fail to see, makes me Irish! I'm looking at my Irish passport here. I'm Irish and also english. I don't know how I'm still having this same conversation round and round with you.

Saoirse Ronan actress was born in America to Irish parents. She is Irish . She is an Irish citizen. She is also American. Does she need to "admit" to you that she was born in America?

No that's not a bad thing at all, which is why I can't understand why you didnt just say you were half Irish half English in the first place, bizarre 🤔

Bizarre. Your posts don't make an ounce of sense.

So you expect everyone to say in their opening post, hi I'm Sarah I'm half Australian , half English!

Why on earth would anyone say that in their first post! You're posts are very odd.

I don't believe that you said what your nationality was when you started posting on this thread did you. Yet you expect everyone else to do it.

That's a very interesting post. I'm looking at some of the links now.

@Liv999 she tagged you in that post. What are your thoughts on her post?

Nobody is judging you for being half Irish half English, you seem way more hung up on your nationality than anyone else is.

I had a look at the thread Liv is on about and I think the issue is that you were saying some things that just didn't sound right to someone raised in Ireland, like how people would associate the name Saoirse with the IRA (definitely not the case south of the border at least). The question was asked in that context, not to give you grief for being part English!

Im hung up on my nationality? I wouldn't have brought it up in my last few posts at all, only I have to keep replying to Sakura7 , who keeps saying over and over , that I didn't admit to being English soon enough. I believe she has said it about five times now. She is the one that is constantly going on about it.

What are your thoughts on the surveys and links that @JustAMum2003 posted?

Now you're getting us confused my dear, time to move on, no doubt you'll have another thread up in a few days moaning about Ireland and the Irish, and @wfhconfusion is spot on

Yes thar should have said you @liv999.
I see you ignored my question yet again. Youu ignore what you don't want to see I guess.

What are your thoughts on the post that aboutamum posted, talking about surveys about racism in Ireland. She specifically tagged you in it

@wfhconfusion @Sakura7 and @Liv999 are all fully Irish as far as in can gather (correct me if I'm wrong) and they are all saying the exact same thing and supporting each other.

Right it's understandable that you want to stick up for ireland. However, that is a knew jerk response. It takes a bigger person to not be defensive. And to look at maybe there are issues in ireland.

I've asked @Liv999 several times now for her thoughts on

-the racism in Irish gymnastics

• the increase in racism in Ireland, described by Leo varadkar,

The surveys on racism in Ireland provided by aboutamum.

I'd be interested to hear your response @Liv999

*knee jerk response

If someone said to me that there is racism in England. I'd agree with you. I know it goes on. I wouldn't get defensive.

I also see that there are huge, huge problems with racism in Ireland. And according to many sources, independent studies etc, the racism problem has reached a level of huge problems in Ireland.

It is important to talk about how we can improve it

I'm half Irish, half English as I've said multiple times on this thread.

I give up now, there's just no point.

Right so

Seeing as @Sakura7 and @Liv999 constantly talk about what I've posted on other threads. Over and over. And I haven't mentioned anything about their posting history yet. I decided to have a look at their posting history.

@Sakura7 has expressed anti- English sentiment on several threads.

I will post what she has said on other threads.

In one thread An English poster talked about English people getting Irish passports after Brexit. Which they were entitled to with Irish passports.

@Sakura7 said

"I just find it funny tbh. Considering the way Britian has treated us throughout history and the prejudice many Irish people faced, it's interesting to see so many Brits now scrambling for an Irish passport"

• On another thread @Sakura7 said this about British people.

"A lot of British people simply don't know the history but spout nonsense about "supporting our boys" and the like.

The current approach has led to large numbers of the British population (and establishment) having a major superiority complex. It has manifested itself with this Brexit nonsense - the rest of the world is shaking it's head in disbelief.".

I put what she wrote here to give context on her as a person.

Why don't you do that then? What are your opinions on how it can be improved upon? For someone that wants to engage in conversation in this topic you don't seem to have a lot to say about it.

Personally, I think that the rise in racism and the far right is linked to a lack of resources as it is in many countries. A country where there is plenty for everyone won't have the same issues, so improve housing, improve healthcare, improve the education system etc. If people weren't in fear of being homeless or paying extortionate rents they wouldn't give a shit that Ukrainians were being given container homes to live in. If people weren't waiting years on waiting lists for basic healthcare or having to pay €€€ to go privately they wouldn't give a shit that other people are coming over and being given free healthcare. If schools were adequate and not overcrowded poracabins, if they coud get school/bus places, if their kid with SN had proper resources they wouldn't care that 20 new kids had joined that year. If people had enough money to do their weekly shop they wouldn't care that over 40million a month is spent on refugees. So basically if the government wants to tackle racism it needs to put it's money where it's mouth is and makes sure that there is housing for all, that there is health care and education for all and that everyone can afford a decent standard of living not be left sitting in cold houses wondering where the money to buy their kids dinner is going to come from.