Is it likely Irish unification will happen in years to come?

[cuppateaandabiccie]

I’m in NI and I quite like being a part of the UK so I most certainly am against a United Ireland.

i like our education system and I know the health service is on its knees, but I’d rather not pay every time I need to go to the doctors.

obviously Sinn Fein are now the biggest party meaning they can nominate for First Minister - does this actually pose a risk to the union with the UK?

If the Deputy First Minister and First Minister both hold equal office - then surely they had the same chances of trying to implement a border poll when the they were Deputy First Minister?

if there was to be a border poll, do people think the majority would support Irish unity or go against it?

also, do people think the DUP will refuse to enter government with Sinn Fein as FM?

Maybe our new flag could have Mr Tayto on it

It's all getting a bit heated in here.
I have no idea if it will happen at some stage but I don't expect it will be soon. I travel to NI regularly for work and there is lots to like about it & in general people are warm and friendly.
The comments about ROI reg cars in NI car parks and 1.5 hours are a bit irritating to someone who lives at the opposite end of the island. It is not an easy journey for a significant proportion of the population and so hardly surprising that many haven't visited.
My own opinion is that re-unification would be an enormous challenge on so many levels and I am not enthusiastic about it. I'm sure it could be done but I think that we have so many problems facing us (health care, housing, income inequality, climate change) and our limited resources should be focused on these issues. Surely Brexit has taught us that making huge political changes costs massive amounts of money, time and resources.
If a vote were to take place, my questions would be what is the reason for undertaking this? Is it purely ideological? Are there clear long-term advantages to the whole island, over and above the status quo?

A lot of angry posts like because nobody has defined what reunification might mean.

I think the thread has been very civilised actually.

Well in the interests of compromise I will change false narrative to personal narrative. However, Personal narratives - for all of us including me - are not reliable. As I am not a neuro scientist I will leave that here . We all look at things through our own lens but we can also challenge these perspectives. The reality is that it is delusional to assert that history is not shared - and it is absolutely the living memory for some. NI did not exist before partition , it was a region of Ireland. False narratives built up after partition as to in how separate it was - the orange washing of history was matched by green washing so that’s an objective comment btw. The futures of both sides are tied up together, it’s naive to think that the border issue is going to disappear soon. Unionist and nationalist identities are two sides of the same coin, they exist because of each other. The continuing narrative that all is different and separate is exasperating and is false . It’s particularly unhelpful at this time with all the issues over the protocol. Creating tension and division in NI through identity politics will be used to manipulate communities - interestingly this sort of tactic
was identified as a tool being used by the Russian authorities in their cyber campaigns to destabilise parts of Europe - but it is being used by those closer to home too. That is why it’s so important to challenge inaccuracies .

Reunification really should mean taking back what is rightfully ours. Honestly I am all for it and as I said, all my friends down here and all himselfs family and friends up there want a united Ireland too. How it will happen is anyones guess, when it will happen the same but I do genuinely believe it will happen and would love for it to be in my lifetime. Calling out stuff as history people do not remember is a pile of cack to be honest. So many people lived through the troubles. It is etched on their minds and not something you can ever forget if you had been through it, no more than Ukranians will have this invasion by Russia removed from their minds for a long long time to come.

@StaceysmomandIhavegotitgoinon The whole point of a shared island is that it belongs to both communities. Creating a common future, a common state, not taking back ‘what is ours’, a triumphalist victory of one side over the other. It’s not a replay of the battle of the boyne. However do you envisage that would work out?

Thanks @MargaretBall for the helpful and insightful comments, completely agree with everything you’ve said.

@MissusMaisel you don’t seem to know much about NI (basing this on your hyper focus of inconsequential differences). I’ve got family in NI and ROI and have lived in both. Half my grandparents (one on each side) were born in NI, half in ROI. Both of my grandfathers were born before partition. Leaving aside the badges of an administration like road signs and mobile charges (which can literally be changed overnight) the experience of being Irish and living in Ireland is not that different whether you live north or south of the border. Unlike you, I can actually speak from experience. You are of course entitled to your opinion but maybe question why you feel so strongly about it.

@MargaretBall this is spot on

Sorry I should have used quotation marks and an emoji as it was a whole chest thumping Tiocfaidh ár Lá, tongue in cheek type comment. This is what I get for posting from the car and on the phone and being far too invested in this thread 😂

Fair enough StaceysmomandIhavegotitgoinon -
Have to say I have become very invested in the Tayto divide this afternoon, court cases , logos and all , may have to scoot across the border soon to do an updated taste comparison.

I think in NI there are two opposing views about reunification and of course that means two separate identities jostling for either reunification or staying within the UK.

Down South, there is only one identity, Irish. Sinn Fein is rising in the polls in the South at the moment, but I see that as the younger cohort fighting against Tweedledee and Tweetledum (FG and FF) who seem to have been swapping power forever between them. The idea that SF at one point was the political wing of the IRA means nothing to them now that there is peace, since they believe SF will sort out all their problems. I doubt reunification enters their heads when they vote or support SF.

The "old guard" on the other hand are those in the South who would have supported the struggle to get the Brits out and were not overtly opposed to terrorist tactics either. That cohort is dwindling re SF and their support is now largely from disaffected younger people who are looking for housing, good transport links, lower cost of living yada yada. Reunification policy is a delicate path for SF to espouse right now.

Reunification is an aspiration, but I think most people in the South couldn't care less about demanding it. Nice to have but they are not going to pay for it. Things in the South are much better than they are in NI, from foreign direct investment, social supports, laws on issues such as gay marriage and abortion etc. There are no flags anywhere, except on Government Buildings and the President's residence. No sectarianism either. Good place to live in comparison with the constant battle of one versus the other up THERE! NI is often seen as a pack of children fighting over a currant bun. When one gets something, the other side throws the toys out of the pram (say DUP), who would prefer to wreck the already struggling economy in NI by scuttling the Protocol. A protocol that is working for everyone at the moment and if embraced could bring untold investment and quality of life to NI. But no, there is no surrender.

Yes but they have the commonality of all being part of the UK.

The people living on the island of Ireland have the commonality of living on the same geographical land mass. I dont understand your point @MondayTuesdayWednesday?

Some interesting views on this thread. I am all for a United Ireland, one day. To me it's simply righting the wrongs of history, partition should never have happened. I don't think it will happen soon but I would like to see it in my lifetime and I'm in my 30s (just about!) The logistics can be overcome, just as they were overcame with Independence 100 years ago. The cost of living is much higher in ROI but as far as I know anecdotally the salaries are much higher for the same roles and the benefits are more generous, particularly child benefit. The change from punt to euro was seamless enough why can't it be again?
With much discussion, planning and funding nd an appetite for it logistics could all be overcame. I

I live in NI, I KNOW its the UK, I use sterling, pay tax to hmrc, have a yellow number plate 😆 , will get an extra bank holiday for the jubilee and all the rest. But I still FEEL as Irish as someone that lives 40minutes down the road in Monaghan. My childhood was summers in the Gaeltacht, GAA matches, a caravan in Donegal, Irish in school, the Late Late show with Gay Byrne on a Friday night, winning streak, the Angelus at 6. I guess it was also British helicopters landing up the back field, soldiers bearing guns tramping the streets, neighbours houses being raided, and the terror of waiting to hear if family were ok when a huge car bomb was detonated in our local town.

It makes me feel a bit sick actually to hear "Southerners" feel like we are just so so different and they couldn't care less about NI. I have far more in common with them than my English colleagues from a few years ago (most of whom had no idea NI was part of the UK 🙄, this was pre brexit)

@Cafog

I don't know what part of the "divide" you align with, but I suspect that you are not a supporter of the DUP!

You see, there lies the problem. A certain cohort want a UI, the other side don't and never will. How to get the sides to agree is impossible right now. Maybe in a generation or two when sectarianism dissipates and the upcoming population are more interested in quality of life rather than Union flegs or lilies at Easter.

@BreakorMake you're right there haha. In fact up until recently despite my "Irish" upbringing I was perfectly content with the status quo and have voted Alliance in the past. Politics were deliberately never discussed at home when I was young even during the Troubles. I suppose Brexit has stirred an awful lot of discontent on both sides.

I agree with you, we need to see sectarianism die away it's difficult to imagine at the moment!

It's too late now. I feel sorry for the Irish who live there, but it's been occupied and war-torn for far too long. It will take at least 2 generations to overcome the trauma of that war. Northern Irish are very different to Irish at this point. Poles apart.

I'm pretty sure that W.B. Yeats got it right.

September 1913
BY WILLIAM BUTLER YEATS
What need you, being come to sense,
But fumble in a greasy till
And add the halfpence to the pence
And prayer to shivering prayer, until
You have dried the marrow from the bone;
For men were born to pray and save:
Romantic Ireland’s dead and gone,
It’s with O’Leary in the grave.
Yet they were of a different kind,
The names that stilled your childish play,
They have gone about the world like wind,
But little time had they to pray
For whom the hangman’s rope was spun,
And what, God help us, could they save?
Romantic Ireland’s dead and gone,
It’s with O’Leary in the grave.
Was it for this the wild geese spread
The grey wing upon every tide;
For this that all that blood was shed,
For this Edward Fitzgerald died,
And Robert Emmet and Wolfe Tone,
All that delirium of the brave?
Romantic Ireland’s dead and gone,
It’s with O’Leary in the grave.
Yet could we turn the years again,
And call those exiles as they were
In all their loneliness and pain,
You’d cry, ‘Some woman’s yellow hair
Has maddened every mother’s son’:
They weighed so lightly what they gave.
But let them be, they’re dead and gone,
They’re with O’Leary in the grave.

@Cafog SOME 'Southerners' you mean. My NI other half is as Irish as I am despite being raised the other end of the island. Like you his childhood memories are similar to yours and he classes himself as Irish as do all of his friends and family. I see no difference to him being Irish from up there and my being Irish down here. Different accent maybe but sure as a Dub there are about 4000 different accents in one county alone. I personally see no difference between people from either end of this island!!!! Religion of course has a lot to answer for.

@JetTail
Yeats did change his mind a few years after he wrote that poem, didn't he, in 'Easter 1916'?

All's changed, changed utterly:
A terrible beauty is born

But there's been more than enough violence now. We don't want to go back to that, whatever Yeats might or might not have thought.

I'm not sure whether reuniting Ireland will work in the future, but I do think it would be very difficult to achieve peacefully right now. Maybe in time.

They are ruled by the same laws, similar education health and social welfare systems.

Germany and France are part of the same geographical land mass so I don’t understand what point you are trying to make.

I’m not against reunification, I just said it would be difficult and when the practical realities come into play there may not be much appetite for it on either side. People would have to clearly know what they would be voting for, unlike in the case of Brexit which is a lesson learned.

Both countries have a lot of positives and they each have their own issues so it’s a matter of how they would be merged.

I would hope that most people in the Republic would recognize that residents of NI who consider themselves to be Irish are Irish because they are. No question of that. I think there is a lot of fear of uniting for fear of reigniting the violence of the past which is a real possibility

If a vote were to take place, my questions would be what is the reason for undertaking this? Is it purely ideological? Are there clear long-term advantages to the whole island, over and above the status quo?

@TheVeryThing
I know, several times during Covid, that people were frustrated that we couldn't take an all-island approach to fighting the virus. It seemed a bit mad at times that there were certain regulations in place, and a few miles over the road everything was different.
Maybe it didn't make much difference with Covid and maybe, after this, we'll be finished with pandemics for a long while🙏
But maybe not?
Anyway, it's one possible reason why uniting might be advantageous.

Seconded!

Seems like a consensus could be found both sides of the border and religious divide with the help of Mr Tayto. Perhaps he could solve the Northern Ireland Protocol too?

He (Yeats) was in love with Maud Gonne (a republican).

He also wrote this poem about her and her fight

No Second Troy
BY WILLIAM BUTLER YEATS
Why should I blame her that she filled my days
With misery, or that she would of late
Have taught to ignorant men most violent ways,
Or hurled the little streets upon the great,
Had they but courage equal to desire?
What could have made her peaceful with a mind
That nobleness made simple as a fire,
With beauty like a tightened bow, a kind
That is not natural in an age like this,
Being high and solitary and most stern?
Why, what could she have done, being what she is?
Was there another Troy for her to burn?

In this he disagrees with her fight. I'm with Yeats. It's too late now. Dev and Collins fucked up. Well, Dev didn't want to be the one whose name went down in history for fighting for all of Ireland. So he sent Collins.

The time to have had all of Ireland free has long since passed now. NI is too enmeshed in the UK. It's too late. Sad, but true.