moving to Ireland from the UK - help me brainstorm?

[tiredoflondonwanttomove]

Hello all good people. Please help me brainstorm a little bit?

I have a wild idea of relocating to Ireland for a couple of years for my children's secondary education (they are young primary at the moment, in the UK, 6 and 7 years). The pandemic had reshuffled my working / earning opportunities, and it is likely to be wfh / remote for the foreseeable time, with full flexibility as to where to work from. In addition to that, local secondary options here in London are getting only sadder and sadder every year (and private options are now priced completely out of my reach). I looked at Irish private schools and they are surprisingly affordable, and the academic level seems to be quite high as well. So toying with this idea now.

The children are half-Irish (and Irish citizens), unfortunately their Irish dad is not very involved. I have visited Ireland quite often during our marriage, and had even worked briefly on a couple of projects in Dublin, loved the country - from the visitor's perspective.

My (Irish) ex-MIL thinks that it is unlikely that the children will be even considered for entry for good private schools, as you have to have connections to the school - they very rarely accept someone completely from the outside, with no alumni in the family. How correct that is?

My annual income would be probably around Eur 100K - 150K (gross, depending on the contracts). What quality of life would it realistically buy? Where is it best to look for with this budget? Ideally I'd want somewhere with a bit of space, not too busy, so probably not Dublin.

And a tricky question, I don't know how to ask in a sensitive way - hope I don't offend anyone. How difficult would it be to live outside Dublin / bigger cities as a visibly foreign person? (I am a British citizen, but not native, naturalised). I had a full range of experiences when holidaying in the British countryside - it wasn't always very welcoming, so a bit cautious now.

I grew up in Malahide

You could think about places like Wicklow to live in if you want to be outside the city

Howth, Sutton are good clontarf

Or greystones dun Laoighre

Think about KH school, blackrock, Loreto

Sutton park

Have you considered moving to NI? Benefits of the culture bit still within the UK. Great schools as well.

@cultkid

I grew up in Malahide

You could think about places like Wicklow to live in if you want to be outside the city

Howth, Sutton are good clontarf

Or greystones dun Laoighre

Think about KH school, blackrock, Loreto

Sutton park

Thank you, I will check out the places!

@JLQ1020

Have you considered moving to NI? Benefits of the culture bit still within the UK. Great schools as well.

Not considered it, to be honest - at least my children have some extended family in the RoI (scattered across the country), so there is some sort of "belonging" for them.

I would spend more time in Ireland long before making this decision, OP.

I'm an Irish person who moved back in 2019 after a very long period abroad, including, latterly, time in the UK, with a UK-born child, and it's not been an easy transition. I've had quite a few English friends make the move post-Brexit/since the Brexit referendum (mostly academics, all in fairly comfortable circumstances), many with school-age children, , mostly to Dublin and surrounding areas, and I would say all of them have struggled to some extent, as have their children, even long before Covid.

One is actually preparing to move back to the UK again.

When you say a 'visibly foreign person', do you mean you're not white? I can't speak to levels of racism as a white Irish person, but having lived in rural areas in both Ireland and England, I found the parts of Ireland where I lived rurally had far more thoroughly integrated foreigners than where I lived in rural England, which I found xenophobic and insular in the extreme.

Just on the schools point - are you looking at private primary? If so (based on my experience in Dublin) I don’t believe your exMIL is correct. Places can fill up quickly for Junior Infants (equivalent to Reception year in England) but it can be easy enough to get into older years if there is space - connections aren’t needed at all.

Sorry, just re-read and see you are talking about secondary. Many private secondaries are over subscribed for first year (although places do open up as they get older). Your best bet would be to try and get them into a feeder primary school to be sure of entry.

It's easier to get in to private schools than it is to get in to good state schools. Obviously not everybody has a spare 7k per child per year.

Life is expensive in Dublin though. Nice suburbs along the Dart line (by the sea) or, inland a bit like gentrified villages, rathmines, rathgar, they're not cheap.

Have you thought about a middle ground? Go to Cork and live somewhere lovely like Midleton or Cobh and send your children to Wilson's college which is a bit cheaper than any private school in Dublin.

I think Belfast is nice for a visit. I wouldn't want to live there.

No I mean Midleton College Wilson's college is in the midlands.

My initial reaction is to wonder why on earth you are considering private schools.

Ireland is not like the UK, where you get a noticeably more advantageous education in fee paying schools - state schools are excellent in general.

From what I can see, private schools mainly offer more in the way of school trips etc, though I still don't think it's necessary - all state secondary schools tend to offer trips to Italy etc anyway tbh.

For example, near me there is a brand new state secondary that cost 20 million euro. Can't imagine any private school would offer more in terms of facilities.

I can see how it's a good and safe option if you're not familiar with the vibe of each state school.

When you look at the league tables, in Wicklow for example, the school that gets the most students in to third level is St Gerard's. Not that other schools don't do well, but they're in the lead. And they have excellent facilities for sports, art, music.

If 7 or 8k was loose change, I'd have sent my DC there.

My experience is out of date as it relates to when I went to school, but I would advise private in south Co Dublin as there are a lot of private schools there and it's very difficult to get into the good state schools. I went to one of the cheapest privates and it was excellent. Outside of that area, I'd be happy with state.

I live in NI now and I have to say I love it. Everything seems smaller and easier than my friends in Dublin for a similar (or better) standard of living - shorter working hours, shorter commute, cheaper houses, bigger houses. NHS.

I wouldn't like to advise you on the racism aspect though.

@Wildern

I would spend more time in Ireland long before making this decision, OP.

I'm an Irish person who moved back in 2019 after a very long period abroad, including, latterly, time in the UK, with a UK-born child, and it's not been an easy transition. I've had quite a few English friends make the move post-Brexit/since the Brexit referendum (mostly academics, all in fairly comfortable circumstances), many with school-age children, , mostly to Dublin and surrounding areas, and I would say all of them have struggled to some extent, as have their children, even long before Covid.

One is actually preparing to move back to the UK again.

When you say a 'visibly foreign person', do you mean you're not white? I can't speak to levels of racism as a white Irish person, but having lived in rural areas in both Ireland and England, I found the parts of Ireland where I lived rurally had far more thoroughly integrated foreigners than where I lived in rural England, which I found xenophobic and insular in the extreme.

Thank you, this is good advice. The thing for me is that I am not native to the UK / British culture either (despite, of course, being comfortable with it and a big anglophile in general). I am white, but it is very clear that I am foreign the moment I open my mouth (Eastern European). There have been some unpleasant experiences outside metropolitan areas / popular tourist spots in England, when I went with the children on day trips. I mean, most of the time people are lovely, but there's always a kind concerned person who assumes that I am living off their taxes while breeding and daring to speak my own language to the children, and tries to rectify this injustice by insisting I go home. I did travel around rural Ireland too (which I loved), and people were universally pleasant (much more so than in the UK), but then I was in the "wife" capacity, no independent experience.

@Blogdog

Sorry, just re-read and see you are talking about secondary. Many private secondaries are over subscribed for first year (although places do open up as they get older). Your best bet would be to try and get them into a feeder primary school to be sure of entry.

Yes, this was my feeling too - that if I decide to do this, I would need to allow for a year or two at the primary stage too. Thanks!

@WiseOwlOne

It's easier to get in to private schools than it is to get in to good state schools. Obviously not everybody has a spare 7k per child per year.

Life is expensive in Dublin though. Nice suburbs along the Dart line (by the sea) or, inland a bit like gentrified villages, rathmines, rathgar, they're not cheap.

Have you thought about a middle ground? Go to Cork and live somewhere lovely like Midleton or Cobh and send your children to Wilson's college which is a bit cheaper than any private school in Dublin.

I think Belfast is nice for a visit. I wouldn't want to live there.

Yes, I am predominantly looking not in Dublin. I am not tethered to anywhere job wise, so would consider anywhere really, my main concern is good schooling here. I will look at Cork, thanks!

@ElspethFlashman

My initial reaction is to wonder why on earth you are considering private schools.

Ireland is not like the UK, where you get a noticeably more advantageous education in fee paying schools - state schools are excellent in general.

From what I can see, private schools mainly offer more in the way of school trips etc, though I still don't think it's necessary - all state secondary schools tend to offer trips to Italy etc anyway tbh.

For example, near me there is a brand new state secondary that cost 20 million euro. Can't imagine any private school would offer more in terms of facilities.

It was just my assumption that it is easier to get into a private school rather than jump through the hoops with the catchment areas (and, I understand, a need for a baptism certificate before age 1 for many good schools - at least from the information on the web?) I know how much is costed me to find a place to live in London near a good primary, and I am not even sure now that, all in all, it was worth it. I will definitely have to move anyway for secondary. So that is what is framing my thinking. I also thought that maybe private schools in Ireland could be a little bit more international?

@WiseOwlOne

I can see how it's a good and safe option if you're not familiar with the vibe of each state school.

When you look at the league tables, in Wicklow for example, the school that gets the most students in to third level is St Gerard's. Not that other schools don't do well, but they're in the lead. And they have excellent facilities for sports, art, music.

If 7 or 8k was loose change, I'd have sent my DC there.

It is not loose change, but the amount I would spend on education. Yes, as you said - I am not very familiar with the state school options there, so afraid to make a bad decision.

@MindyStClaire

My experience is out of date as it relates to when I went to school, but I would advise private in south Co Dublin as there are a lot of private schools there and it's very difficult to get into the good state schools. I went to one of the cheapest privates and it was excellent. Outside of that area, I'd be happy with state.

I live in NI now and I have to say I love it. Everything seems smaller and easier than my friends in Dublin for a similar (or better) standard of living - shorter working hours, shorter commute, cheaper houses, bigger houses. NHS.

I wouldn't like to advise you on the racism aspect though.

Ah thanks! I probably won't be able to afford Dublin though.

I think the children's dad would oppose a move to NI through courts. He is amenable to RoI as that's where his family is.

I've never been asked for a baptism certificate.

And catchment areas aren't a thing here. Especially not for secondary schools where kids bus in from 15 miles away.

And no, in my experience state secondarys are more mixed. Recent immigrants to Ireland do not have the money to send their kids private. So the Polish/Nigerian/Ghanain/Syrian kids are all in state schools. I imagine private schools are pretty homogeneous.

You seem to be basing a lot of your thinking on the UK system. This is not the UK.

I would consider NI. Children follow the Uk national curriculum- so do GCSE's and A'levels. Schools are excellent and there are many many grammar schools. There are private schools and they're very reasonable, but not necessary. Dublin is only 1.5 hours from Belfast (less depending on what side of Belfast / Dublin you're travelling to.

Could you not just move out of London to a place with good state schools. I would have thought that would be more straightforward.

If selection is your thing, Kent has grammar schools. And if you avoid the London side of Kent, you only need to be in the 25% or so to get a place.

If you don’t want the stress of the 11+, find a place with good comprehensives. The North Cotswolds, for example, have Tatler approved comprehensives (Chipping Campden School/Cotswold School), which Tatler claims give a fee paying experience, without paying fees.

@ElspethFlashman

I've never been asked for a baptism certificate.

And catchment areas aren't a thing here. Especially not for secondary schools where kids bus in from 15 miles away.

And no, in my experience state secondarys are more mixed. Recent immigrants to Ireland do not have the money to send their kids private. So the Polish/Nigerian/Ghanain/Syrian kids are all in state schools. I imagine private schools are pretty homogeneous.

You seem to be basing a lot of your thinking on the UK system. This is not the UK.

Thank you! I indeed do not have a first-hand experience, therefore asking people who are closer to it. My exH went to a private school in the UK, he also has no experience of the Irish system.

@Matildatoldsuchdreadfullies

Could you not just move out of London to a place with good state schools. I would have thought that would be more straightforward.

If selection is your thing, Kent has grammar schools. And if you avoid the London side of Kent, you only need to be in the 25% or so to get a place.

If you don’t want the stress of the 11+, find a place with good comprehensives. The North Cotswolds, for example, have Tatler approved comprehensives (Chipping Campden School/Cotswold School), which Tatler claims give a fee paying experience, without paying fees.

I am a bit ashamed to admit this, but I don't think that I would be able to afford a mortgage near a good state school in the UK on my own - it seems now to have crossed a million mark around the schools you have mentioned. I also suspect that I would be stopped from moving inside the UK by the court - exH is a very litigation-happy person and would not be very open to an idea of adding to his contact journey time.

@Alienchannell21

I would consider NI. Children follow the Uk national curriculum- so do GCSE's and A'levels. Schools are excellent and there are many many grammar schools. There are private schools and they're very reasonable, but not necessary. Dublin is only 1.5 hours from Belfast (less depending on what side of Belfast / Dublin you're travelling to.

Thank you!

Easy for me to say, but I wouldn't worry about being Eastern European in Ireland. There's a huge Eastern European population there and generally very well thought of. Obviously any immigrant to any culture will sadly face some gobshitery from gobshites but I would like to think it would be rare event.