moving to Ireland from the UK - help me brainstorm?

[tiredoflondonwanttomove]

Hello all good people. Please help me brainstorm a little bit?

I have a wild idea of relocating to Ireland for a couple of years for my children's secondary education (they are young primary at the moment, in the UK, 6 and 7 years). The pandemic had reshuffled my working / earning opportunities, and it is likely to be wfh / remote for the foreseeable time, with full flexibility as to where to work from. In addition to that, local secondary options here in London are getting only sadder and sadder every year (and private options are now priced completely out of my reach). I looked at Irish private schools and they are surprisingly affordable, and the academic level seems to be quite high as well. So toying with this idea now.

The children are half-Irish (and Irish citizens), unfortunately their Irish dad is not very involved. I have visited Ireland quite often during our marriage, and had even worked briefly on a couple of projects in Dublin, loved the country - from the visitor's perspective.

My (Irish) ex-MIL thinks that it is unlikely that the children will be even considered for entry for good private schools, as you have to have connections to the school - they very rarely accept someone completely from the outside, with no alumni in the family. How correct that is?

My annual income would be probably around Eur 100K - 150K (gross, depending on the contracts). What quality of life would it realistically buy? Where is it best to look for with this budget? Ideally I'd want somewhere with a bit of space, not too busy, so probably not Dublin.

And a tricky question, I don't know how to ask in a sensitive way - hope I don't offend anyone. How difficult would it be to live outside Dublin / bigger cities as a visibly foreign person? (I am a British citizen, but not native, naturalised). I had a full range of experiences when holidaying in the British countryside - it wasn't always very welcoming, so a bit cautious now.

@ElspethFlashman

I've never been asked for a baptism certificate.

And catchment areas aren't a thing here. Especially not for secondary schools where kids bus in from 15 miles away.

And no, in my experience state secondarys are more mixed. Recent immigrants to Ireland do not have the money to send their kids private. So the Polish/Nigerian/Ghanain/Syrian kids are all in state schools. I imagine private schools are pretty homogeneous.

You seem to be basing a lot of your thinking on the UK system. This is not the UK.

I’m a recently-returned Irish person. DS, who isn’t baptised and spent his first four years of school at a C of E village school in England, is at an Educate Together primary, and loving it — secular, egalitarian ethos, no uniform, all teachers called by their first names. And he has children either born outside of Ireland, or born to parents who are comparatively recent immigrants from Rwandan, Polish, Lithuanian, Scandinavian, Canadian, and English backgrounds, in his class of 26.

Sorry, I meant to say I was agreeing with @ElspethFlashman that state schools are more mixed, and that the private/state school situation doesn’t map at all onto Ireland.

M y parents live in the catchment for both the comprehensives I mentioned - their four bedroomed semi is probably about £400K. Admittedly, it’s a 1960s housing estate, rather than a beautiful Cotswold cottage. But definitely affordable, if you have been thinking about fee-paying schools. And I live in East Kent, which is again relatively cheap.

That won’t help with your ex, but if he wouldn’t let you move within England, is there any chance you’ll be allowed to move to Ireland, even with his family connections there?

@Lucent

Sorry, I meant to say I was agreeing with *@ElspethFlashman* that state schools are more mixed, and that the private/state school situation doesn’t map at all onto Ireland.

Ah thanks! Good to know. As I said, I have no independent source of information - only my ex-MIL who is a bit sceptical of the state schools there, and what I gathered online.

There are just not very many private schools, apart from anything else, OP. It’s a much more unusual decision to send your child to a private school here — outside of Dublin, anyway.

@Matildatoldsuchdreadfullies

M y parents live in the catchment for both the comprehensives I mentioned - their four bedroomed semi is probably about £400K. Admittedly, it’s a 1960s housing estate, rather than a beautiful Cotswold cottage. But definitely affordable, if you have been thinking about fee-paying schools. And I live in East Kent, which is again relatively cheap.

That won’t help with your ex, but if he wouldn’t let you move within England, is there any chance you’ll be allowed to move to Ireland, even with his family connections there?

Yes, he is actually a supporter of "move to Ireland" plan. He's not in such a regular contact with the children for the flights to be a problem, but for some reason just wants to make my life more difficult. He already stopped me from moving once (I mean, it never got to the actual full hearing stage, only an emergency decision, but my house purchase obviously fell through in the interim so in the end there was no case to be presented).

@Lucent

There are just not very many private schools, apart from anything else, OP. It’s a much more unusual decision to send your child to a private school here — outside of Dublin, anyway.

Understood! Every day is a school day

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fee-charging_schools_in_Ireland

This may be somewhat out of date, but this Irish Times survey on fee-paying schools is from 2019

www.irishtimes.com/news/education/fees-for-private-schools-jump-as-enrolments-return-to-boom-time-high-1.4125470

and suggests there’s only about 50 in total, overwhelmingly secondary, plus the vast majority are in Dublin.

I don't know what part of Eastern Europe you're from, OP, but I know a few Polish families, Lithuanian families, and Croatian families in my small rural Irish town. DS is friendly with some of the DC. I genuinely don't know if any of them have had any xenophobic experiences. Often hear Polish in the supermarket. I don't think anyone bats an eyelid. Lots of families have been here since the 2000s and have grown up DC. I think Polish might be the second most widely spoken language in Ireland after English (not sure).

Second what somebody said about private schools not being much, much better in Ireland than the state option. It does depend very much on the individual schools though. Anyone I know who went to private school for secondary went to the local primary before hand. (I'm in my 40s so that's my disclaimer.)

In the bigger cities it can be hard to get into the best/most popular secondary schools. In rural areas most people just go to the school that's there unless it's dreadful for some reason. People might go to the one the next town over if it has a better reputation, or they offer a wider range of subjects. People might live between a few different options, as second level schools are in the towns.

Roughly there are secondary schools, which I suppose are like grammars, technical schools, which aren't as heavily academically focused, and community schools, which are a combination. Secondary schools are probably mostly still under some kind of religious patronage, I don't really know, but that doesn't mean much practically. Techs used to be under what was called the VEC which was vocational and educational committee but that's gone now and there are Education and Training Boards, but again I don't know if these boards are over the technical schools. I don't know where community schools fall in this system. The town I grew up amalgamated a secondary and a tech a few years ago to become a community school, and so did the town DH grew up in. Our nearest big town is doing the same in a few years, but it's two single sex secondary schools that are being amalgamated.

Do you think your children would be likely to return to the UK after school or university? That might be something that would make a difference.

I didn't get asked for a baptismal cert for the local primary. Which was just as well!

I also think it would help if you lived near family. Perhaps not in the cities so much, but in smaller towns and rural areas there can be a strong sense of community among people that have lived there for generations. It's not that you'd be unwelcome, just they've all lived there for generations. I'm not sure how to word it, it's things like kids will be invited to birthday parties because their parents were in school together too. Not as big a deal when they get older as they make their own friends, but it is definitely a thing.

I'd agree that there are very many excellent state schools in Ireland.

Have you considered Kilkenny? Kilkenny college is a private school - Protestant ethos. Great place to live & easy to access Dublin and the airport

Kilkenny College isn't private anymore.

Will they need to sit exams in irish or do they get an exemption from that?

DS was 7 and went into second class when we returned to Ireland from the UK, and just picked up Irish. I don’t think you can apply to be exempt from Irish until you’re 12, and/or have done all your primary education outside of Ireland. I think.

I know some of the non-Irish parents struggle with homework. We do a fair bit of emergency coaching on the class WhatsApp.

My (Irish) ex-MIL thinks that it is unlikely that the children will be even considered for entry for good private schools, as you have to have connections to the school - they very rarely accept someone completely from the outside, with no alumni in the family. How correct that is?

I've worked in private primaries in Ireland, it's not correct at all imo. As long as you can stump up the cash they'll take you. I saw someone recommend trying to get your kid into private primary for the last couple of years and I wouldn't recommend this at all - reason being, everyone has that idea and 5th/6th are the hardest to get into. The private primaries I know have waiting lists for most classes these days. There aren't many private primaries and they do tend to be a bit racially homogenous.

Your kids won't get an Irish exemption but Irish really isn't that hard, especially considering the age they're at. If you're worried you could get grinds for them.

"Irish really isnt that hard"
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

It really isn't hard at 6 year old level, especially not if you have private school money to burn. Get a tutor to teach the colours/days of week etc and they'll be set.
I actually find that children of immigrants to Ireland do better at it than native Irish as a general rule. Much better attitude to language learning coming from home. Again, a generalisation there.

It's definitely not hard at 6. I have a 6 year old and it's just nouns at this age.

Agree it's not hard, and definitely not hard in the younger classes in primary school.

Oh stop. It is definitely hard. I speak fluent Spanish, reasonable French and a bit of Danish which is said to be hard but is easier than Irish. I learned Irish for 14 years.

Someone up thread mentioned that people don't go to private schools as the families don't have the spare money in my experience that's not it at all. People really don't feel the need to spend that kind of money when state schools are for the most part excellent. We would have a fairly decent income coming into our home and I can honestly saying sending DC to private schools have never even entered our head . Actually there are none near us so it's a total non issue anyway.

I'd agree, there isn't the same culture of private school.

@SparkyBlue

Someone up thread mentioned that people don't go to private schools as the families don't have the spare money in my experience that's not it at all. People really don't feel the need to spend that kind of money when state schools are for the most part excellent. We would have a fairly decent income coming into our home and I can honestly saying sending DC to private schools have never even entered our head . Actually there are none near us so it's a total non issue anyway.

I think that poster was saying that new immigrants to Ireland often wouldn't have the spare money for private school fees -- I think in response to the idea that fee-paying schools would have a more ethnically diverse intake.

But in general, I agree. We're not poor, and it has never occurred to me to send DS to a private school.

How about Galway? Lovely city,not as big as Dublin or Belfast more on par with Derry and Cork?

If your ex-MIL is in the social strata of sending her children to boarding school in the UK, she is in a tiny minority and her views and experiences are valid to her but not to the vast vast majority of how Irish people of all social classes operate and educate their children. There are virtually no private primary and comparatively few private secondary schools, especially outside of Dublin. I would say standards of schools are generally high across the board and with a more holistic approach and mixed intake than would seem to be the case in the UK. I think you'd find it a lot harder to find a really bad school than a really good school.

@WiseOwlOne

I can see how it's a good and safe option if you're not familiar with the vibe of each state school.

When you look at the league tables, in Wicklow for example, the school that gets the most students in to third level is St Gerard's. Not that other schools don't do well, but they're in the lead. And they have excellent facilities for sports, art, music.

If 7 or 8k was loose change, I'd have sent my DC there.

Good medical links also 🤫