I fear the "craic" is gone from Ireland forever

[afternooncuppa]

Just that really. However, I would love to be told I'm wrong so would love to hear your views.

My parents are Irish living in England and I spent a lot of my childhood and youth there and still visited at least 4 times a year pre-Covid. To me, my heart belongs in Ireland and I was hoping to move there at some point. When I was younger (in my late teens/early twenties) my group of friends consisted of English, French, Spanish and Italian backgrounds and EVERY holiday they always wanted to go to Ireland because the "craic" was so great and could not be matched in their countries. Ireland had everything (apart from the weather) - music, life, bands, dancing, laughing, joking, wildness, patriotism, Guinness, more Guinness and CRAIC. Living and enjoying life to the full.

Now Covid has hit and although it has changed countries everywhere, I can't help but think that Irelands draconian reaction has destroyed the country beyond repair. Not only economically (as everywhere) but the very things they are famous for, the very soul of the place has gone. They seem hell-bent on zero-Covid (which is impossible) and are running the country into the ground to achieve this. My own healthy and young cousins are too scared to step outside the door due to the "deadly" virus (which it is not). I know wet pubs have been shut for about a year with many unlikely to re-open. I've heard of the staggeringly ridiculous actions of the Garda to prevent humans being humans and I despair.

St Patricks Day last week watching old videos on my phone in crowded bars with live music, drink flowing, dancing and craic made me want to cry at the loss of everything Ireland was and the fear it will never return.

Does anyone think it will ever come back?

I'm British, living in Ireland for many years. Irish DH, English-born children mostly brought up here. I've never had any anti-British comments directed at me, ever. I've never noticed any racist comments on Craicnet either. I don't post much there, but I read a lot.

Whysorude - I didn't just talk about myself did I? I talked about the OP, who came on here and said that she felt many posters have been rude to her on this thread. Go back and look.

Read what I said.

I don't think there was any nastiness directed towards the op. There isn't any anti-British sentiment on this board either and if there is, I will call it out. I reported a post on AIBU recently wishing death on EU citizens on one of the vaccine threads. That was nasty.

The opening post was totally overblown. If there was concern expressed for the survival of small businesses including pubs following this crisis, that would have been an entirely different conversation. Instead, s/he seemed to be sounding the death knell of the Irish psyche for fecks sake.

I really think you are reading too much into this.

@HorseOutside how is that relevant?

It reminds me of when I saw an Irish woman on mumsnet saying that she had experienced racism in London, and another woman came on and said that she had never experienced racism in London, ever.

How is what the second person said, any way relevant to what the first person said? It was like she was trying to say "you can't have experienced racism, because I have never have!"

Are you saying that because you haven't experienced racism in Ireland, that it doesn't exist at all? Because I know very many people who have experienced severe racism in Ireland.

Sarah we're taking about this thread, and this MN board. Not Ireland as a whole.

Nobody has claimed that racism doesn't exist in Ireland because that would be patently ridiculous.

Stop moving the goalposts.

And as I've said previously, report any racist posts and point them out to us so we can report them too.

Except you haven't done so. You won't give any specifics of where these anti-british posts are.

@IsFuzzyBeagMise The OP said herself, that she felt that nastiness was directed at her.

Some one said on this thread

"Don't you just love it when a Brit comes in to tell the uncouth Irish idiots what is going on in the rest of the world?

There are many posts on this thread being nasty about " a Brit daring to come in here and tell us Irish something"

British and Irish people should be able to post here without being attacked.

Anyway, I am out of this thread . This thread is full of nastiness.

@MarDhea Seeing as you want specific examples, here is a post from the first page of this thread.

*"I’m laughing at the idea that now we’re not able to judge how bad it is because we live in Ireland.

We put up with centuries of that shite from Britain, thanks."*

I've just read the op's posts again. S/he says that the comments were immature and sarcastic and when I replied, apologising for any perceived offence, she said that no offence was taken, she had a good laugh and was well able to channel her 'inner craic', so it looks like you are getting upset on her behalf.

I think that because Ireland were the victim in history, some Irish people think that they can constantly attack British people , and that is fine. No it is not, it is still racism.

Germany were the perpetrator of terrible acts in history. A long time now ago. And nothing to do with present day German people. If a German woman came on here and asked a question about Ireland, and someone told her to fuck off, you fucking ruined Europe 100 years ago, you Hitler lover" Would you think that is ok?

So why was it ok for someone to say on this thread:

Would you ever fuck off?
We put up with centuries of that shite from Britain, thanks.

It is not ok at all. It is disgusting. I have reported the numerous posts on here. Absolutely disgusting stuff.

To be fair, Hitler was only 85 years ago, world war 1 was different Germans. Not the point, but still.

Obviously, some posters are unfamiliar with the phenomenon of a certain type of British person condescendingly explaining basic facts to Irish people. It represents a continuation of the "thick Paddy" stereotype so lovingly espoused by Punch back in the day, which still manifests amongst some British racists as assumptions that Irish people are stupid and/or ignorant, that Ireland's universities are third rate, that Irish people all have a problem with alcohol, that Irish people are feckless and not suited for positions of responsibility, that the Irish state isn't a real country and is incapable of government, etc. Such opinions thankfully only ever some from a tiny minority of British people, but such people tend to shout so loudly and so often that they are vastly overrepresented in both traditional and social media. To nobody's surprise, many Irish people have noticed the pattern inherent in this behaviour and often call it out for the small-minded jingoism that it is. The behaviour is so common that it even has a nickname (tansplaining).

Not being aware of this phenomenon is the only reasonable explanation I can generate for the rather unusual turn this thread has taken. I can think of other explanations but they are - shall we say - less reasonable.

@Sarahtrue11

I think that because Ireland were the victim in history, some Irish people think that they can constantly attack British people , and that is fine. No it is not, it is still racism.

Germany were the perpetrator of terrible acts in history. A long time now ago. And nothing to do with present day German people. If a German woman came on here and asked a question about Ireland, and someone told her to fuck off, you fucking ruined Europe 100 years ago, you Hitler lover" Would you think that is ok?

So why was it ok for someone to say on this thread:

Would you ever fuck off?
We put up with centuries of that shite from Britain, thanks.

It is not ok at all. It is disgusting. I have reported the numerous posts on here. Absolutely disgusting stuff.

Hmm, ok. You see, I don't view that post as anti-British racism. I view it as someone likening a particular condescending post from a British person about Irish culture to the long history of Britain (as a state) condescending to Ireland (as a state) regarding cultural matters.

It's not a good look, that condescension. At best, it's politically and historically naïve. At worst, it's deliberately racially insulting (though I don't believe that's the case here).

The "fuck off" part clearly indicates the poster was exasperated, but this is MN where we often swear. We are allowed to express our anger when we are being patronised.

Perhaps MNHQ will take a different view, but fwiw I disagree with you. That's ok by me. We can disagree with each other and move on.

[quote Sarahtrue11]@MarDhea Seeing as you want specific examples, here is a post from the first page of this thread.

*"I’m laughing at the idea that now we’re not able to judge how bad it is because we live in Ireland.

We put up with centuries of that shite from Britain, thanks."*[/quote]
Oh wrong post quoted above - I actually meant to reply to this one.

I recognise the behaviour but did not know it was called tansplaining. That must be new surely? A play on mansplaining? Maybe I've lost track of time (entirely possible) and those phrases are around a long time.

Yup, I assume it's a play on mansplaining. It's an almost perfect fit as an analogy to the power dynamics and behaviour.

The reference to the Black and Tans is a little aggressive, imo, but after years of living in the UK and putting up with anti-Irish sentiments on an unfortunately regular basis... I can see its point.

Can we lighten this god dam thread up a little please!!!!

We're Irish. We've had worse things than Covid and lockdowns and we're always still banging out tunes and having the craic. The sun's shining and there's starting to be a wee buzz back in our country

Op I hope you're back here soon in your holiday house. The craic will be ninety when these restrictions are lifted

Oh just saw this now, and sorry not to keep the tone light but @MarDhea, that comment was aimed at me, an Irish person, living in Ireland, so difficult to see how I could be tansplaining (a term I have only ever seen from woke types on Twitter rather than something anyone uses in real life).

@Puppalicious

Oh just saw this now, and sorry not to keep the tone light but *@MarDhea*, that comment was aimed at me, an Irish person, living in Ireland, so difficult to see how I could be tansplaining (a term I have only ever seen from woke types on Twitter rather than something anyone uses in real life).

Nope, not aimed at you at all.

I'd be happy for this thread to die a death now as well. It was certainty no craic by the end. The long-running covid threads are pretty good though

I am a non-Irish (English) person living in Ireland. I arrived in March 2020 so all I have known here is various stages of lockdown. I absolutely love the place and the people here and am very glad I am here. Do I want to go to a pub and listen to Irish music and eat seafood in a fab restuarant and travel around historical sites, learning more about Irish history, and go to a swimming pool and museums...yes, of course I do. But the lack of these things has not made life joyless...we will appreciate them all the more when they come back.

I know much more than that has been discussed on this thread, I didn't want to get into all the other stuff, just to say I love it here and there is craic enough for me for the moment...