Nervously sticking my head around the door

[Shedbuilder]

Hello, I'm the idiot who started an Is it a good idea to move to Ireland? thread on AIBU this afternoon. It's been suggested I post here. I wouldn't otherwise have dared to because I'm not Irish.

Basically my partner and I (lesbian couple) are distressed by Brexit and the direction the UK is taking. My partner is British-born but from a family with strong roots in Ireland and she has an Irish passport and has spent a fair bit of time over the course of her life in Ireland. She wants to live in Co Wexford and is looking at houses in villages around Enniscorthy. I've been to that area for a long weekend for a family wedding but apart from that don't know it. I've had maybe a dozen holidays/ trips in the Republic: I'm a tourist basically.

We don't have children. We have work that we will bring with us. My partner works remotely for a German firm and can almost certainly continue that from Ireland. I have a small specialist construction business that I should be able to continue in Ireland and which I would hope to grow so that I can employ people. We have pensions etc. I'm only mentioning this to make it clear that we will not be a drain on the state.

Friends are really important to me. I'm nervous of ending up in what will be a foreign country and being forever the outsider because I'm English. As a older lesbian I'm kind of used to, but still vulnerable to, that sense of being 'othered'. I have friends in Spain and the Netherlands who talk of always being outsiders. My partner really doesn't understand this but my experience on AIBU (poor choice of words, saying things that weren't meant as critical but were read as critical) has confirmed that I may have to spend the rest of my life with my mouth shut.

What I didn't say on that thread, because it didn't seem relevant at the time, was that I spent four years living in Belfast and later in Derry. Going there from cosmopolitan London was an eye-opener — and because I'm English I was actually welcome there on the whole. My partner feels very much at home in Ireland. Because she has family there and because she grew up within the culture, she doesn't see the differences and difficulties I do. I don't know if any of this is making sense. I'm a bit shaken by the AIBU experience.

I'd be particularly interested in hearing the reactions of those who've moved to Ireland from the UK and elsewhere. I understand from what some people said on that thread that where we settle may make a big difference to my experience. My partner wants to get over there as soon as possible. If I'm not prepared to do so then it may mean the end of or a major change in our long relationship so this is a big deal for me.

I came over to craicnet to see if you had posted. I can see where you are coming from actually, it’s daunting to see if you can build your life and identity in a new place, particularly where you dont have family or connections.
To the question of do we hate the English , well no, but I suppose the impact of Brexit on our country (and NI) is very raw still and relegations can be strained. I live in the South east, there are plenty of English people resident here. I think the people who seem to settle best are those who understand the country and culture. Maybe making contact with a gay couple here might shed some light on how lesbian couples are received.
I hope when all of this abates you and your DP come for a visit to see if it suits you and if you can imagine living here.

I saw your other thread!

You both need to think about it. Would it be possible to do a trial run for a few months to see if you liked it?

I'd not worry about being English or lesbian (if that was a concern) but some places can still be quite small town where everyone knows each other's business.

Your partner sounds as if she had a bit of a romanticised view of "being Irish" so the reality might be harder for her.

I’m a returner (Irish born) but it has been a good move back.

Much better post

I did reply to your post on AIBU, where I thought your attitude was problematic. However, I'm taking this post at face value.

Firstly, I doubt you were welcome in Belfast/Derry because you're English. I expect you were welcome because you found like minded people.

I understand your concern about making friends but your nationality is not going to inhibit that. I know loads of English people here and their lives are the usual mix in terms of socialisation. However, moving to a relatively small rural area that has few outsiders living there will be harder than moving to a more mixed area. Not because you're English but because relationships are more static.

I live in a small village but, as it is close to a city, it has a lot of blow-ins. Because of that, it is relatively easy to build a social circle so long as you get involved in village life. In contrast. I wouldn't move to the small town my dh comes from in a fit, as there are few blow-ins and everyone is still in the same social groups they went to school with. Much harder to build a social circle.

I would say choose the area carefully and go for an extended holiday there before making any decisions. Don't sell up in the UK initially so you can go home if it doesn't work out.

Actually I agree with @hopeishere , it might be a bigger shock to your DP moving here and realising the vast majority of people possibly won’t see her as Irish in the same way as they are. Second gen folk often find they fall between the two cultures.

Thank you for not yelling at me! I'm now outside a couple of stiff drinks so I'm sorry if this doesn't make much sense.

I agree that my partner has rosy-tinted glasses on and I think that's what is so worrying. We've just had a good conversation about why in some ways, Germany would be better for us. Partly because we probably wouldn't understand any anti-English comments, partly because the Germans aren't looking back into history all the time, partly because we would go there knowing we were outsiders and wouldn't expect anything to be easy, as she expects of Ireland. I showed my partner the AIBU thread and it has certainly given her food for thought. She thought I was joking about being English in Ireland but not seems now to understand that her 'in' to local life might not always extend to me.

If Scotland or Wales or even Northern Ireland were to go independent and rejoin the EU I'd feel much more confident about being able to build a rewarding new life there. I have a Scottish surname, my gran was Welsh: it helps.

Sorry, I'm now officially pissed. I'll come back tomorrow if anyone has anything more to offer. Have a good evening and thank you.

Partly because we probably wouldn't understand any anti-English comments, partly because the Germans aren't looking back into history all the time,

It didn't take long for your ignorance to come back. This is the type of comment that results in negative attitudes towards some English people in Ireland.

No, there's plenty of evidence on the first thread to support me saying that.

partly because the Germans aren't looking back into history all the time

Weren’t you the one who brought up Irish servicemen in WW2 in the first post on your other thread? You really need to reflect what seems to be deep-seated anti-Irish sentiment.

OP: makes ignorant and goady comment about Irish history

Other posters: respond to her post

OP: the Irish are sooooo stuck in past, always harping on about their history.

FFS

Well, practically speaking, it might be difficult for you to move to Germany anyway as you won't have the same freedom of movement as your wife since you won't have an EU citizenship anymore.

Two things specifically about moving to Ireland. Firstly, stop being so self-conscious about being English. I'm Irish but lived in London for absolutely ages so moved back with an English accent and so everyone assumed I was English and I didn't have a single negative comment. Just don't bring it up in conversation and don't make any assumptions about what the people around you are thinking, they're probably not thinking about you as much as you might believe. And don't go on about things that you miss that you can't get in Ireland (I still mourn my loss of Waitrose, but internally).

Secondly, for goodness sake be cautious about how good the internet is in the area that you move to if you are remote working. Some rural areas are basically dial-up speed, other areas that have high-speed broadband might not have enough connections for all the houses in the area (happened to one of the family's at DD's school when they moved slightly out of the suburbs).

Why do you want to live in a village?

I'm from England, have been living in Ireland for over ten years.
You wont be an 'outsider' because you are English or because you are a lesbian. The issue is that the people you are trying to mix with will have close relationships from school/college/work that will have built up over a number of years - you wont have this connection with people.
How do you plan on meeting new friends in Ireland? I think a couple of the most common ways would be through work and through our kids. If you have your own business then you wont be joining a workplace and able to make friends there... you dont have kids so wont be meeting other parents at the school gate/for kids parties/be able to join the parents association.
Yeah, I do think it would be difficult losing all your friends and trying to make new friends.

@Shedbuilder - No, there's plenty of evidence on the first thread to support me saying that.

Nope. People on the other post responded to your comments on Irish people serving in ww2 and explained that there are loads of historical reasons why they weren't lauded. The comments also spoke about how history has shaped relations between UK and Ireland. Again, in response to your comments.

Looks like my initial reading of your post was correct.

Thanks. It's difficult to stop being self-conscious about one's accent when the first thing people tended to say to me, in Northern Ireland anyway, was 'Ah, you're English.'

And thank you too to those who've suggested a trial run, which makes sense. We might well have been over there now, trying it for six months, had it not been for Covid-19.

My partner works for a German company that would very probably find a role for her in Germany. I imagine it's quite likely that with her salary and my own (I can probably keep running my business in the UK going remotely) we could meet spousal requirements. Her company also has offices in the Netherlands, she tells me tonight. So possibilities there too. We'll keep looking for a way out.

Belfast and Derry are very cosmopolitan compared to Enniscourthy. You'd be a long way from any big town out there. Wexford has a great Opera festival though if that's your thing?
I came back to Ireland 2ys ago. It's been great. Everyone will comment on the accent until they get to know you, they are just making conversation. I get asked where exactly I'm from in my home county all the time when meeting someone new.
Practically it may not be a good place for work, most of the country lives around Dublin and outside that unless it's a remote or rural service you maybe too far away from your clients.

I didn’t read your first post (but will now) if you’ve been to derry and Belfast and like it could you not move there? And if it’s being part of the uk that’s the problem - we really don’t feel that we are. However would Donegal be an option? Lovely county and bordered by 4 other counties depending where you live. What about irish life does your girlfriend wish to embrace?

Inituntiltheend, thanks for the suggestion. My partner would really like to live closer to her family in the Wexford area. I know that particularly since the Brexit vote NI has felt very much closer to the ROI, and I'm hoping for unification, but it still seems a long way off.

Donegal is beautiful, been there a few times, but too rural. Absolutely take on board the need for decent. quality wifi and mobile coverage. Much of the work I'd hope to be doing would probably be in the Dublin area, though any area where there's building going on is likely to have opportunities for me. I could commute to Dublin a couple of days a week from the Enniscorthy area in theory, though the reality might be rather different.

you’re hoping for unification really?

You'll always be a non-local. My mother is English but has lived over here for 55 years and wouldn't go back. Irish people love making connections, usually we find we have a cousin in common in about 5 minutes. So if you're secure in your personality as always being the outsider, you'll be fine. Most Irish people will work out your local connections and then shrug and move on.

On the practicalities of living near Enniscorthy, there is motorway/dual carriageway all the way to Dublin. There is a train line. Wexford is popular with ex-pat Dubliners many of whom have holiday homes there. It's the Dubliner equivalent of Devon or Cornwell.

Gorey considers itself to be quite cosmopolitan for a small town. Broadband might be an issue. Connections to the local community are usually created by school, church, GAA and to certain extent the pub. If you like sports a local club will probably welcome you.

Don't mention Irish history in any way, shape or form until you've read about it from a variety of sources. Most Irish people will think you're ignorant at best or an uniformed bigot.

Well, everyone I know and trust in NI is hoping for unification, certainly, and I take my cue from them.

yeah but you’re not moving to NI, you’re talking about moving to ROI. You do realise that they are 2 different states right? Your arrogance is breathtaking.

TheLongRider, thanks for confirming that in many ways Wexford might be a suitable geographical area: I'd checked the roads and railways and that was one of the main reasons we had been focussing on the countryside immediately around Enniscorthy. I'll take a look at Gorey: appreciate the heads-up.

I don't have children, don't go to church and unfortunately I don't have the skill of talking easily with strangers in the pub. My partner is going to talk to her manager next week about the possibility of working from the Netherlands. Meanwhile I will go and read up about the Anglo-Dutch wars.

MadamBetty, I lived in NI for some years and yes, I do understand that NI and the ROI are two different states. I mean, if there weren't two different states no one would be discussing reunification, would they?

well thank you for pointing that out @Shedbuilder