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Britain Is In Steep Decline But Govt Is Busy Distracting Us With Ideologies

80 replies

Maggispice · 12/12/2024 14:43

"Britain is going through a period of major decline. Ipsos poll conducted earlier this year found that “68% of people in Britain say the country is in decline. [This] marks a sharp increase since 2021 when only 48% agreed that the country was in decline.”
Why do British people feel this way? Let’s look at the facts.
Politicians tell us the economy is growing. And who could disagree? In 2023, Britain’s economy grew by a whopping 0.1%! This magnificent result was achieved despite the economy shrinking by 0.3% in the last quarter of 2023 and 0.1% in the quarter before. When I was studying economics at university, we were taught that two consecutive quarters of “negative growth” was called a “recession”. Today, we call that “building an innovative economy”.
But are these figures an accurate reflection of British living standards? Not even close. Forget the fact that heroin consumption and prostitution contribute more to our GDP than volunteer work. Let’s look at GDP per capita, i.e. how much economic activity we produce per person. This is where the reality of British decline really comes to the fore:

What you can see from this graph is that GDP per capita fell sharply during the Great Financial Crisis of 2007-2008 and has still not recovered. What is more, this graph is not adjusted for inflation which, as we all know, has been a massive problem for years. Put simply, on average, British people are poorer today than they were in 2007.
And this is no accident. Because our politicians are judged on whether they have delivered GDP growth, they don’t actually care about whether you and I are richer or poorer. This is why the country experienced unprecedented immigration levels under the Blair/Brown Labour Government, and then even higher levels under the Cameron/May/Johnson/Truss/Sunak Conservative Governments. The easiest way to deliver GDP growth is to increase the number of people in the country. The way they have done this (importing low skilled, low wage workers) makes us poorer, but in a way that politicians can’t be blamed for.
Economic growth in Britain is not just anaemic, it’s an accounting trick. Think of it like this: You are a family with two children. Both parents earn the average British salary of £35,000 a year. Your household’s “GDP” is £70,000. Then your in-laws move in with you and chip in another £10,000 a year. Your GDP has grown by £10,000, but your GDP per capita has fallen from £17,500 (70,000/4) to £13,333 (80,000/6). Your household now makes more money, but each person is poorer. That’s Britain in a nutshell.
Share
Money isn’t everything, of course, but the lack of it makes everything worse. The crumbling infrastructure, the release of dangerous criminals from prison because of overcrowding, the failure to catch criminals or even investigate crimes, growing NHS waiting lists and even the anger that spills out during riots is a product, in large part, of a stagnating economy.
The housing crisis means that across the country the average age of a first-time buyer is now almost 34. In London, where all the good jobs are, that is now nearly 37. In other words, even for people who can afford their own home, the point at which they are likely to buy one is now so late in life they may struggle to have children for purely biological reasons. While housing is not the only cause, it is clearly a contributing factor to the halving of Britain’s Total Fertility Rate in just 60 years. In 1964, British women had 2.93 children on average. Today we are well below replacement at 1.59.
Falling fertility rates are a common phenomenon across the Western world and beyond, one that has cultural, economic and spiritual dimensions. But the fact remains that a society not having enough children to replace its population is doomed to face both decline and the uncontrolled mass immigration we’re seeing today.
A nation can endure and bounce back from periods of stagnation and even decline, provided there is a sense of common purpose and a willingness to be honest about the problems it faces. In Britain, we have neither.
The nation - and the common purpose that came with it - is rapidly becoming a thing of the past, to be replaced with the much-celebrated “communities” we keep hearing so much about. Instead of seeing ourselves as British first and everything else second, we are now Asian, Black, White, Jewish, Muslim, Christian and LGBTQI+ first and little else second.
As for honesty, we shun, ostracise and increasingly set what is left of our police on people who express widely-held views about illegal immigration, the threat of Islamist terrorism, and the failure of multiculturalism—especially if they come from the working class, whose crass ways and ugly sentiments offend the sensibilities of the chattering classes.
I could go on but you get the point. And if you’re reading this in the UK, you live the point.
I see no urgency. When I listen to people of all political persuasions who run this country, they’re all doing their best to pretend that what is happening is normal. A problem to be managed. I assumed this was the face they were putting on for public consumption but, alas, behind closed doors they’re exactly the same.
This is one of the very best qualities of the British psyche: to remain steadfast and calm, no matter the circumstances. The world over, people admire the British when they hear the story of Antarctic explorer Lawrence Oates, who left his tent and walked into a blizzard to certain death because the gangrene and frostbite from which he was suffering were compromising his three companions' chances of survival, doing so with the words “I am just going outside and may be some time".
My point is, the British are a remarkably unexcitable people. As a result, we avoid an awful lot of trouble of the kind that comes with the impulsivity and quickness to action that we see both on the Continent and across the Atlantic. But this is only a strength if you are steadfast and calm while taking action. And that’s the problem: no one really knows what to do.
People say that if Britain was attacked, we’d struggle to get people to enlist to defend it. I think that’s nonsense. If our country went through what the people of Ukraine experienced in February 2022 or what Israel suffered on October 7, I have no doubt there would be millions of young men around this country who would volunteer to serve and millions of others who would support the war effort.
But we’re not in a war. There is no enemy to fight. There is just a creeping, unstoppable malaise. And so we don’t know what to do. Even now, with the wave of enthusiasm that swept through the United States, our equivalent coalition of the anti-woke centre and centre-right is cautiously positive and imperceptibly optimistic."

The above was written by Konstantin Kisin.
What do you think about this and how can we get the country producing again?
Using immigration to prop up the numbers is fool hardy. Most of the low skill immigrant visas tend to have on average 3 dependents. In some countries care visas are being sold for upwards of £15,000 as it cos with visas for all dependents. So to a family of 4 children who want a British education it's a no brainer or if you have a dependent who needs long term medical attention. So many families take out loans to pay unscrupulous agents to get them a certificate of sponsorship with a care home so they can bring their family of 6 in some cases. Housing, schools and GPs are feeling the brunt. These cost money so even if the govt started a huge program of training more carers and supplementing their wage it will still cost less than the cost of education, GPs, pressure on infrastructure etc and be better for the country economically, socially and more in the long run.
Shouldn't we all write out MPs so they can go back to the drawing board and build the country?

OP posts:
Radishknot · 14/12/2024 07:47

I also think wage stagnation & frozen income tax bands doesn’t get enough attention.

50k today is the equivalent to 40k in 2020 and 33k in 2010. Plenty of jobs that paid 33k in 2010 aren’t paying 50k now.

helpfulperson · 14/12/2024 08:00

Radishknot · 14/12/2024 07:26

@helpfulperson when did we have the same economic issues & demographics? It’s logical the definition of poor will change because countries are meant to progress.

the one that springs to mind is the 80's when unemployment was 3 million, mortgage interest rates were 15% and most people who owned a house were in negative equity so couldn't move. Mass redundancy events were common. Schools were terrible and underfunded. We were in the middle of the AID's pandemic

Radishknot · 14/12/2024 08:12

Interest rates of 5/6% aren’t that different to the 15% of the past because of how percentages work & of course MIRAS was a thing then. But demographics were not the same in the 80s were they? We have had tough economic times before but after a period of such stagnation and with the change in demographics @helpfulperson?

Radishknot · 14/12/2024 08:15

In the 60s we had 5 workers to 1 pensioner, now it’s 3:1 and forecast to hit 2:1 pretty soon hence why pension age has increased.

Radishknot · 14/12/2024 08:17

But then it can’t be increased to 71 or whatever as it needs to be because healthy life expectancy hasn’t increased and not enough people will be able to work that long.

thankyouforthedayz · 14/12/2024 09:31

The Chief Executive of 'Sense' says that 24% of the population are disabled. That is a country in terminal decline. Not sure how many work. The fast dwindling number of working people will not be able to support non working people.

Mischance · 14/12/2024 09:33

Frankly I would like to see a bit more ideology - I think this Labour government is a bit short on it - or at least it has not emerged yet in their policies.

shortoedtreecreeper · 14/12/2024 09:38

AlbertCamusflage · 14/12/2024 07:24

I only clicked to see what the "ideologies" were that the govt is distracting us with. Didn't spot them in the op, which seemed like an immensely long way of saying that the UK is in decline and that people aren't nationalistic enough.

Two points spring to mind:

What is nationalism, if not a "distracting ideology"?

What's so bad about a declining fertility rate (esp if the population of younger people is being kept buoyant by immigration)?

Gender Ideology?

Frowningprovidence · 14/12/2024 09:44

I agree with some parts, not others.

I think its clear we are in decline
I think its clear we aren't very productive
I dont think governments are honest about this or gave a plan
I'm a bit confused about the immigration stuff.
I can't see any distracting ideologies.

Pat888 · 14/12/2024 16:09

Radishknot · 14/12/2024 07:47

I also think wage stagnation & frozen income tax bands doesn’t get enough attention.

50k today is the equivalent to 40k in 2020 and 33k in 2010. Plenty of jobs that paid 33k in 2010 aren’t paying 50k now.

That also means that the tax income going to the Gov is less (if wages are comparatively less) - unfortunately bumping up wages puts a bigger burden on the tax payer if you're talking about public services or the employer if you are talking about private companies. So no quick fix for this.

Maggispice · 15/12/2024 01:46

helpfulperson · 14/12/2024 08:00

the one that springs to mind is the 80's when unemployment was 3 million, mortgage interest rates were 15% and most people who owned a house were in negative equity so couldn't move. Mass redundancy events were common. Schools were terrible and underfunded. We were in the middle of the AID's pandemic

We didn't have such a huge welfare provision as we have now. So they gkver9ckuld focus on building infrastructure and industry while citizens went back to the drawing board, innovated, set up businesses etc. There's no incentive to do that now. The govt will print money and pay you be stay home. Then look abroad to bring in migrants with different values, language etc. We incur costs to provide interpreters, free healthcare, education etc for people who haven't paid into the system and won't ever pay enough to cover their costs. So govt gets into more debt and inflates away the value of currency in people's pockets.

OP posts:
Maggispice · 15/12/2024 01:47

Radishknot · 14/12/2024 08:15

In the 60s we had 5 workers to 1 pensioner, now it’s 3:1 and forecast to hit 2:1 pretty soon hence why pension age has increased.

Thank you for providing this perspective.

OP posts:
Maggispice · 15/12/2024 02:31

In fact we're beginning to see diabetes in younger ages including children. Leading to amputation in some.
Social media, lock down etc affecting children's well being and likely to limit their capacity to innovate, strife and persevere in adult life. Lack of affordable and accessible whole foods as farming continue to be less attractive and is decimated. Money pumped into making fake foods and more ultra processed minimal nourishing edibles.

Many graduates are unemployed including first class mathematics and engineers students. I know them personally.

The change in values, lack of common ground and intolerance for the traditions and values of the nation and instead uplifting every other. The fact is that humans need shared values.

So government instead is pandering to emotive irrelevant ideologies on one hand to make them look good, draw attention to them, get more influence, more power which on the other hand means bigger government and higher taxes but a deeply fragmented and confused society. This will eventually weaken the country and make way for China, Russia and the Middle East.
So the question is why is the government not serving the interest of the nation?

OP posts:
Maggispice · 15/12/2024 02:42

thankyouforthedayz · 14/12/2024 09:31

The Chief Executive of 'Sense' says that 24% of the population are disabled. That is a country in terminal decline. Not sure how many work. The fast dwindling number of working people will not be able to support non working people.

There used to be a stigma to not working. People were motivated by societal pressure and responsibility towards family and friends to be as productive as possible in order to be self sufficient, care for one's dependents, give charity and provide an inheritance for one's children. These are being worked on aggressively by govt and media to be seen as abhorrent.

Even illegal migration to the UK is most those seeking welfare, while illegal migration to the US is usually for work though the democrats started to provide generous welfare packages to illegal migrants in recent years. Packages not even available to US citizens and this is one of the main reasons Trump won. Even Chicagoans voted for him.

OP posts:
Maggispice · 15/12/2024 03:01

Thomas Sowell raised this alarm decades ago. Although he was Marxist in his younger days and wrote his college thesis on Marx’s Das Kapital. He started shifting away from it when he worked in the Federal Department of Commerce Washington. He saw that increases in the minimum wage was producing rising rates of unemployment and the department's refusal to look into the effectiveness of the minimum wage.
Politicians seeking votes, accolades and support from an electorate that fails to analyse will use cheap gimmick such as raising minimum wage to blind uninformed voters.

In essence, strap tight! We're in for a ride if a shift in the other doesn't happen.

OP posts:
Nanalisa60 · 15/12/2024 04:19

I’m 63 and this is the worse state I have ever seen the country in. It’s just so sad i could just cry it’s really so depressing, The thought of four more years of this government and mass immigration fills me with fear. I probably only have another 20/30 years left and I really believe that the U.K. I was born into in 1961 will be unrecognisable by 2051 and not in a good way. We are being bleed dry with tax but really get nothing in return. For the first time in our life’s two years ago we started to pay for private health insurance because I don’t trust that I will ever be taken care of by the NHS . I don’t trust the government I don’t believe a word that they say, I have stoped believing the main stream media they are just the mouthpiece of the government. In four years time I will vote reform, as I cant take another Labour or Tory government unfortunately by 2027/2028 I think that the U.K. might be bankrupt morally and financially.

Pat888 · 15/12/2024 05:04

Giving pensioners winter fuel allowance was a sop by Gordon Brown to buy votes from the elderly -and it worked.
Gov shouldn’t have paid a housing benefit -result is land lords raising and raising rents. And if Gov gives more the rents will go up again.
But I cannot fathom criticising of this Gov of 6 months - they are attempting to sort 15 years of austerity, Brexit by the Tories - it will take at least ? 3-4 years to get started.
……plus so many bad decisions of the past that the Tories did nothing about eg so many going to uni and no plumbers or builders, DCs at school for so long, bad roads and infrastructure, etc

Pat888 · 15/12/2024 06:54

. We are being bleed dry with tax but really get nothing in return.

Now I am in my late 60s I can see where sooooo much money goes - health service. I know people who have, sadly for them, had 10 operations over their life for various problems, a friends 80 yr DF has lung problems so almost weekly lung function and blood tests, another's DMIL is in hospital, then Psychiatric Hospital then back to hospital, friends visiting GP with lump on arm, migraines, backache, on and on and on. We all get old and iller - bottomless pit.

What do you do? You can't turn people away but it's ceaseless and will increase with the high number of boomer oldies.

Guavafish1 · 15/12/2024 07:02

Racist propaganda

The economic mistake and what has made UK poorer is Brexit plus Liz Truss.

Migration is an issue … but it’s multifaceted and not as simple as you make it. In fact you sound racist.

The last government has miss handled the public sector.. schools, hospitals, GPs, housing and roads etc.

A lot of public sector money has gone missing during COVID pandemic.

Nanalisa60 · 15/12/2024 09:12

Rachel Reeves's recent audit of public spending identified a range of in-year spending pressures facing the new government. One of the largest pressures was for costs relating to asylum and illegal migration, with an estimated £6.4 billion of pressures on day-to-day spending in 2024–25.29

The Netherlands is stated that every migrant will cost the state £400,000 over there life time , I don’t think that in the U.K. we will be spending any less then that probably more.

The cost of housing illegal migrants in hotels is £5-6 million a day and rising that’s just the hotel bill, Then there’s the health care the pocket money the teaching of English the free bus passes. once they get asylum then they can bring all there dependents all get housed, fully furnished new homes in many cases and on full benefits.

of course I will be called a racists, but unfortunately there is a elephant in the room and calling anyone in the room who dares says there is a problem with being culturally enriched won’t make the elephant disappear , we are all being made poorer and our services are under strain.

There is nothing wrong with imagination it’s just getting to wright imagination, on a points base.

And don’t even get me started on the madness of Edward Miliband he will make us all poorer with his policies.

But ha ho you all just keep paying those taxes!! work till your 71 and vote for Labour or the Torres nothing will every change. I will be voting reform if they don’t win the next election then we are all doomed!!

So we have four year left to watch and see and feel our country decline, we will also be able to watch what happens in the USA, will be a very different story in each county in four years time one will be on it knees and one will be do just great!!

eacapade1982 · 15/12/2024 09:32

The world population has doubled since the mid 1970s and in that time humanity has pushed aspects of Earth’s natural environment to the brink, e.g, biodiversity and climate. In the same epoch inequality has massively increased so that wealth is concentrated in the hands of a tiny minority and the bulk of the population struggle for their livelihoods. We are currently in a transition period between growth at the expense of plundering Earth’s natural resources to a more sustainable model. This will involve reducing inequality, increasing environmental protections, designing a new economic system that doesn’t rely on perpetual growth and slowly reducing the world population. The old system in place through the second half of the 20th century may have benefitted our Western parents but it was not sustainable and couldn’t continue indefinitely or we would have burned ourselves out.

rocky5001 · 15/12/2024 09:37

Konstantin Kisin's an idiot. He gives a thorough and accurate summary of the decline of the country under the last fourteen years of Conservative government and neoliberal economics, then suggests the left is somehow to blame and the answer lies in the "centre right anti-woke".

As nonsensical as this line of reasoning evidently is, it's surprising how commonly accepted it is. The worse capitalism gets, the poorer and more unequal it makes the country, the fiercer its pet projects like Brexit backfire, the more it's all the fault of "WOOOOOKE!!!!!!". Like the free market economy can't possibly deliver its inevitable trickle down benefits while there are so many transwomen in women's bathrooms.

It's moronic, but plenty of people seem to believe it - enough to reelect Trump, after all. You seem to believe it so good luck.

Nanalisa60 · 15/12/2024 09:51

rocky5001

It's moronic, but plenty of people seem to believe it - enough to reelect Trump, after all. You seem to believe it so good luck.

Well we have four years to sit back and see who on the right road our glorious Leader tax all Keir or Trump!!

I know who I would bet on, I will be happy in four years time to say if I’m Wrong and that the Labour government has done a great job and everything is going just dandy, , I doubt very much you would ever be able to say the same if you are wrong and Trump turns the USA economy around and we are on our knees.

Only time will tell.

eacapade1982 · 15/12/2024 10:40

Trump is a boomer and he might be able to engineer some short term growth but changing nothing and basically kicking the can down the road but at the expense of further environmental destruction which makes the task more difficult for whatever future generation does actually step
up to deal with the problem

HoppityBun · 15/12/2024 10:45

Most western countries are in decline and this was predicted decades ago. The west comprises a few very rich families and the rest are getting poorer but can’t grasp that reality. Until people realise that inequality is corrosive, it won’t change. We expect a standard of infrastructure that most people are neither willing nor able to pay for.

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