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Original poster

I need to reimburse money that my dad loses

103 replies

Brats4kid · 27/09/2023 17:13

I have moved in with my dad, we share utility bills etc. I own half of the house because my mum died. He is losing some benefit money and he has said that I need to pay him what I lose. I really don't understand this and it's stressing me out! Any help would be appreciated 🙏

OP posts:
Original poster
Brats4kid · 27/09/2023 19:52

topcat2014 · 27/09/2023 18:17

Why didn't the whole house pass to the spouse. Sounds cheeky to me that you moved in

That is what was written in the will between my parents. He wanted us to move in.

OP posts:
FloweryName · 27/09/2023 19:57

What do you think should happen then OP? Do you think it’s fair that your Dad loses that much money when you’re getting such a significant financial benefit?

Original poster
Brats4kid · 27/09/2023 19:57

ChristmasCrumpet · 27/09/2023 19:29

There's a bigger picture at play to be honest.

The DF and DM worked and paid off their house so they were mortgage free. Maybe DF paid the lot. They both worked together, regardless, to own their home and not have to scrape by with mortgage payments in their later years.

DM has sadly passed, and presumably OP is the only child, so she's left her half to DD. I presume DF's will says the same.

What's unusual here, is that the remaining parent usually stays in their home until they pass themselves, or move to perhaps a care home, or downsize to another property. It is highly unusual for one parent to die, and the adult child to declare immediately that half the house is theirs so they and their whole family are moving in. Presumably at the time DF is mourning the loss of his wife.

I can't imagine one of my parents passing and me grabbing "my half" and moving myself in. That's my mum's/dad's house with one of them still living in it! Similarly, I would be quite ashamed of any of our children, if DH and I, worked all our lives to pay off our beautiful home, I lost DH at a reasonably young age, and they turned up on the doorstep, moving themselves in, "it's technically mine as well now, so move over mum, oh and I know you'll be several hundred a month worse off because of it, but it's mine, so...."

How this arrangement came about, I think is critical to how this loss of money issue is tackled. If DF wanted them desperately to move in, and this was an oversight on his part, it's very different to "we're living here, and you can't stop us because mum didn't put the right clause in her will"

Firstly, you are 100% wrong. It was written down by a solicitor, when i was in my early teens, that my dad had arranged because my 2 half sisters wouldn't get the house. My dad is disabled. The house was in severe disrepair. Which myself and my husband has spent over £10,000 on.

OP posts:
Thelittleweasel · 27/09/2023 20:00

@Brats4kid

Can I urge that you get someone to mediate what should be paid and how. Possibly even get a short legal agreement set up. Years ago a DGM gave us money and we had an agreement drawn but did not sign. She later said it was a loan and wanted it back. You need also to make quite sure as to your ownership. Has probate been granted? The normal arrangement between married people is that on the death of the first the property passes "by survivorship" to the other. [Joint tenancy]. This will override any purported bequest in a will

PlanningTowns · 27/09/2023 20:02

is he not better off since you have moved in? Or he pays 1/3 of bills now, surely he paid 100% previously?

how can he only pay £20 a month on food - that’s less than £1 per day which has been shown to be v v v difficult to survive on.

why are you doing everything by around the house? I understand he is disabled, did your mum previously do everything and now you’re expected to take her place?

did you sell you’re previous home to move in or were you renting?

surely everyone is better off in this arrangement except you doing all the work??

MikeRafone · 27/09/2023 20:03

I meant to say the money he loses. So, he will lose £270 from Employment support allowance

So if you all moved out - how much would the 2/3 bills that you are currently paying - cost him?

Even taking into account that the bills will have increased due to more water, heating, electric being used it would still be more than £270 surely that he is having to then pay.

Babyroobs · 27/09/2023 20:06

PlanningTowns · 27/09/2023 20:02

is he not better off since you have moved in? Or he pays 1/3 of bills now, surely he paid 100% previously?

how can he only pay £20 a month on food - that’s less than £1 per day which has been shown to be v v v difficult to survive on.

why are you doing everything by around the house? I understand he is disabled, did your mum previously do everything and now you’re expected to take her place?

did you sell you’re previous home to move in or were you renting?

surely everyone is better off in this arrangement except you doing all the work??

I'd be happy to do a bit of housework and cook meals for no housing costs !!

Babyroobs · 27/09/2023 20:08

How long ago did your dad lose your mum op ? unless she was on a disability benefit also, he would not have been getting that severe disability premium on his ESA anyway so maybe hasn't even been getting that extra £270 a month for long ???

Arrestedforit · 27/09/2023 20:16

I suggest you book an appointment for you and your dad with your local Citizens Advice office so you both understand his benefits and the consequences of you all living in the same household.

At the very least he will have lost his 25% discount on the council tax, which he would have got for being a single resident.

Were you paying rent before you moved in? Are you financially better off as a consequence?

Splitting bill’s proportionally seems fair to me. No one here can comment on you doing lots of the domestic stuff, he may be unable or just lazy, but you’d still, between you and your partner have to cook, clean, shop etc for you and your children.

Original poster
Brats4kid · 27/09/2023 20:18

PlanningTowns · 27/09/2023 20:02

is he not better off since you have moved in? Or he pays 1/3 of bills now, surely he paid 100% previously?

how can he only pay £20 a month on food - that’s less than £1 per day which has been shown to be v v v difficult to survive on.

why are you doing everything by around the house? I understand he is disabled, did your mum previously do everything and now you’re expected to take her place?

did you sell you’re previous home to move in or were you renting?

surely everyone is better off in this arrangement except you doing all the work??

Sorry, £20 a week. My mum was disabled too. He paid 100% previously. I work part time and onlybget around £700 per month

OP posts:
youveturnedupwelldone · 27/09/2023 20:19

He shouldn't be losing anything except single person council tax discount simply because you're moved in.

You are a household, he is a household, he's not your dependent, benefits doesn't work like that.

If he is on means tested benefits there might be a non dependent deduction which might be what you have to make up for him (basically an amount gets deducted because you live there, with the expectation you will make up the shortfall).

ChristmasCrumpet · 27/09/2023 20:19

Brats4kid · 27/09/2023 19:57

Firstly, you are 100% wrong. It was written down by a solicitor, when i was in my early teens, that my dad had arranged because my 2 half sisters wouldn't get the house. My dad is disabled. The house was in severe disrepair. Which myself and my husband has spent over £10,000 on.

Show quote history

But the fact you've been left this, isn't the point, you haven't actually addressed the elephant in the room. Were you 100% willingly and wantingly invited in by DF, or have you decided you're pretty much living there because you can, and that's that? Did he simply not say "no" because he knew he couldn't? There's evidently no clause that you have to wait for the remaining owner to pass/move out, which is what happens in 99% of cases, hence it seems like an oversight when the will was drawn up.

Also, the fact you seem to think you've done something of real recognition by spending £10k, on a house you paid nothing for, yet live in, whilst enjoying zero housing costs because the other resident co owner has spent their life clearing the entire mortgage for you (£100k? £500k?!)....that speaks volumes.

It's a very, very unusual situation. For this exact reason.

Arrestedforit · 27/09/2023 20:19

And repairing your asset is fair, in my opinion

Papillon23 · 27/09/2023 20:22

I don't think you become a single household just because you have moved in with him - I think this may be what is causing the issue?

Babyroobs · 27/09/2023 20:23

youveturnedupwelldone · 27/09/2023 20:19

He shouldn't be losing anything except single person council tax discount simply because you're moved in.

You are a household, he is a household, he's not your dependent, benefits doesn't work like that.

If he is on means tested benefits there might be a non dependent deduction which might be what you have to make up for him (basically an amount gets deducted because you live there, with the expectation you will make up the shortfall).

It seems he has lost the severe disability premium on his ESA which you lose if another person moves in with you.

TheShellBeach · 27/09/2023 20:36

Babyroobs · 27/09/2023 18:39

He could also be losing £75 severe disability premium if he is disabled and claims pension credit ? So it may not just be the council tax single occupancy discount.

He isn't old enough to get
Pension Credit.

Babyroobs · 27/09/2023 21:12

TheShellBeach · 27/09/2023 20:36

He isn't old enough to get
Pension Credit.

Show quote history

Yes I think my comment was made before op said his age and it then became clear it was ESA severe disability premium he has lost which has been mentioned upthread multiple times now.

Brokendaughter · 27/09/2023 21:40

You have moved FOUR people in.
He is ONE person.

You say he has helped you financially with repairs which benefit you.
He & your mother also paid off the house in full which you didn't contribute a penny towards.

You say you expect him to pay one third of everything & accept the loss of income caused by four extra people moving in.

Why aren't you paying 80% of everything & him only paying 20%?

Why are you expecting him to lose money and also pay out to subsidise the four of you?

LifeIsHardAlways · 27/09/2023 22:01

Honestly seems kind of a dick move to inherit your mum’s half, move all of your family in and not make up any shortfall? You’re living mortgage and rent free and in most situations you wouldn’t have had the house to live in until your father had died too. If it was me, I’d have made the difference and if he’s now paying a third of utilities (which will be higher for 5 people) he’s getting shafted on that too.

Babyroobs · 27/09/2023 22:23

LifeIsHardAlways · 27/09/2023 22:01

Honestly seems kind of a dick move to inherit your mum’s half, move all of your family in and not make up any shortfall? You’re living mortgage and rent free and in most situations you wouldn’t have had the house to live in until your father had died too. If it was me, I’d have made the difference and if he’s now paying a third of utilities (which will be higher for 5 people) he’s getting shafted on that too.

Agree with this and his ESA will be a pittance to live on and his PIP is intended to cover the extra costs of his disability.

Theunamedcat · 27/09/2023 22:30

He shouldn't lose his esa because your seperate households I would question it

Babyroobs · 27/09/2023 22:33

Theunamedcat · 27/09/2023 22:30

He shouldn't lose his esa because your seperate households I would question it

He is not losing his ESA - he is losing the premium that he gets with the ESA because he is no longer living alone. The conditions of claiming the severe disability premium are that you live alone and no other adults live with you ( unless they are also disabled). Therefore because op has moved in, he has lost the sdp. maybe op could look at whether she could reduce her earnings to below £139 a week then she could claim carers allowance and give him some back !

ChristmasCrumpet · 27/09/2023 22:33

LifeIsHardAlways · 27/09/2023 22:01

Honestly seems kind of a dick move to inherit your mum’s half, move all of your family in and not make up any shortfall? You’re living mortgage and rent free and in most situations you wouldn’t have had the house to live in until your father had died too. If it was me, I’d have made the difference and if he’s now paying a third of utilities (which will be higher for 5 people) he’s getting shafted on that too.

It really is.

Then to say "well me and my partner have spent £10k on DIY in this gifted house, with zero mortgage, that we've moved us and two children in to, oh and dad did also help out with those repair costs, but anyway, look at how good we've been"

She genuinely thinks there's nothing wrong with her conduct. She's entitled to it, and that's as far as she sees.

newfriend05 · 27/09/2023 22:47

You need to reimburse your dad the money he is losing OP .. why do you think you don't need to .. your living rent free in his house it's not yours till he has passed and what a gift that is .. you sound greedy (he's living on benefit money for Christ sake) .. you work and your husband ( where does he fit into all this )

EliflurtleTripanInfinite · 27/09/2023 22:53

Brats4kid · 27/09/2023 19:57

Firstly, you are 100% wrong. It was written down by a solicitor, when i was in my early teens, that my dad had arranged because my 2 half sisters wouldn't get the house. My dad is disabled. The house was in severe disrepair. Which myself and my husband has spent over £10,000 on.

Show quote history

I'd be cautious about spending money as the house might need to be sold if he goes into a care home at some stage. Did your parents own it as tenants in common so your mum's share could legally pass to you or is it a more informal ownership you have because your parents were joint tenants? Are you listed on the title now are tenants in common with your Dad with a defined 50% share. I'd want to confirm specifically what the situation is as this effects your legal right to any of the house if it has to be sold for care fees.