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Original poster

Son moving back home

53 replies

Birdsmakingnests · 02/04/2023 09:50

I live in a rural, isolated area with no neighbours for 2 miles. I am not lonely, but I have no immediate help or back up if there is an emergency.

I have 2 sons.

Older son, Chris, is married, settled, lives 200 miles away, is a high earner and appears financially secure. Comes home on average once every 3 months for a weekend and I have a spare bedroom to accommodate him and his wife.

Younger son, Tim, has been with his partner for 10 years, I have a good relationship with the partner and Tim. They live together 5 miles from me and pop in 2 or 3 times a week. Tim is a great help if I need assistance doing heavier type jobs about the place.
They are both in full time employment getting minimum wage, rent a private 2 bed house and are struggling to manage financially in their present situation. The past 3 months, they have needed monitory help in order to make ends meet.

I am not in a position to bail them out on a monthly basis so this is not sustainable.

However, I have 1 bedroom self contained annex attached to the house which we have never used to its full potential. It’s currently wind and water tight, needs about 5k spend on it to bring it up to a reasonable standard to live in. It has a seperate electric supply.

Tim has asked if he can move back home and live in the annex. He has asked if I will provide the 5k to do it up and he will pay me back. Then if it needs further money spend on it to meet their needs and taste, they can do that themselves once they are back on their feet.
I am happy to do this. This will give them a bit of financial breathing space and it will have its advantages for me having them here.

We have agreed that Tim will pay for the electricity usage in the annex.

Chris is not happy with this proposal and thinks Tim should be paying rent, even if nominal.

Whats your thoughts, should I charge rent?

OP posts:
Original poster
Birdsmakingnests · 02/04/2023 09:51

Chris and Tim are not their real names.

OP posts:
Cherrybl0ssm · 02/04/2023 09:54

Yes you should charge rent and have a tenancy agreement in place.
You pay the £5K for the necessary repairs and he pays rent.
It’s your annex not Tim’s. Any further money spent to meet their needs and taste would need to be agreed by you - and at their cost - we would be the case with any tenant.
Id by very cautious about this course of action.

Roundaboutabee · 02/04/2023 09:54

I would expect Tim to continue to pay something after the £5k is repaid, even if nominal.

How old are you? What timescale is being discussed? What happens if (sorry) Tim is living in the residence that needs to be sold to pay for care costs for you, or is part of your estate? I’d this a “getting back on his feet” or a permanent home for life?

Yesthatismychildsigh · 02/04/2023 10:04

What on earth does it have to do with Chris? Having that opinion makes him sound very entitled.
And surely Tim paying the £5K should negate any rent, as you’ll be left in a better position.

Original poster
Birdsmakingnests · 02/04/2023 10:06

Great to hear different views, thank you.

It’s not a long term plan, the annex is very small. Only 2 rooms which is a bedroom with en-suite shower room and an open plan living/kitchenarea.
Compact and bijou!!

The ideal plan is for them to save to get a deposit to buy.

OP posts:
EyesOnThePies · 02/04/2023 10:11

It’s none of Chris’s business.

Tim helps you with heavy jobs.

Once he has repaid the £5k refurb costs, you will have an upgraded annexe that in future you might be able to let as AirBnB or whatever.

Talk in a businesslike way with Tim. As they will be living in your property you will lose your single Council Tax discount. I think they do need to cover shared costs. Buildings insurance, water etc. Which will help you anyway.

Set up a proper repayment schedule for the £5k repayment, that leaves them able to manage without asking for help.

And maybe talk about a phased cheap rent for after the £5k repayment.

Seems a sensible solution to the housing crisis and high rents issue to me.

Caspianberg · 02/04/2023 10:11

I wouldn’t for now.
£5k paid back each month over a year plus electricity will still cost them £650-700 a month for a year. Probably cheaper than renting 2 bed elsewhere and other bills.
So they are saving maybe £500+ a month on rent towards deposit for elsewhere.

I would have an agreement that after 18 months you will review arrangement as by then they will have paid back £5k and should be contributing towards water/ council tax/ internet etc also

Lordofthebutterfloofs · 02/04/2023 10:13

I don't see what Chris's problem is?

They will pay any additional costs like electricity, increase in water bills, WiFi and for their own food ect? As well as paying back the money for doing the place up.

It's separate to your property so they won't be in your space and they will be able to save to buy.

Seems ideal. I think Chris is jealous that he didn't think of it first

EyesOnThePies · 02/04/2023 10:15

What is their current rent? Will repaying the £5k really be cheaper for them?

Bloody hell, my brother and SIL lived in Mum and Dad’s house for years while they renovated their own and I have no idea what the arrangement was, didn’t ask, none of my business! What is it with Chris?

Twoshoesnewshoes · 02/04/2023 10:17

We say to all of our adult DC, there is always a room here if you need it (one is still at Uni so obviously still in our care sort of).
the older two have all come back, eldest for one year to live rent free to save a deposit for a flat.
I think as long as an equal offer is available to all of them, that’s fine.
I guess if Tim can help you do up the annexe you can rent it out later?

kweeble · 02/04/2023 10:17

It’s nothing to do with Chris!
I would invest the £5k and charge rent to cover your costs only. Will there be separate council tax charge / water rates for instance?

SlipSlidinAway · 02/04/2023 10:17

Personally I would tell him not to worry about paying the £5k back. If you pay it you're investing that money in your property and will own a more valuable asset.

I'd reframe him covering electricity costs as him paying you a nominal rent to cover his share of electricity, water, council tax, broadband, wear and tear etc. it doesn't have to be very much but it might prevent any friction between the brothers. And I don't see why your older son needs to know how much it is. I have a vaguely similar situation and my dc who lives elsewhere doesn't know how much 'rent' their sibling pays and has never asked.

Oblahdeeoblahdoe · 02/04/2023 10:19

None of Chris's business. If you feel you have to justify yourself say Tim is paying you in kind by doing jobs for you. Once the £5k is repaid you could possibly look at charging a rent but it's still up to you and not C.

isthewashingdryyet · 02/04/2023 10:21

You need to charge some rent, enough to cover increased insurance and council tax and the utilities at least, and little for wear and tear.
Tim pays for the upgrade too.

Original poster
Birdsmakingnests · 02/04/2023 10:23

Thank you so much everyone, I’m sitting here crying reading your responses as I know what it’s like to struggle, I know what it’s like to rob Peter to pay Paul.
I know what it’s like to have to ask someone to bail you out.
I want to help them because I am now in a position where I can. But equally, Tim can help me, which he does already.

Chris on the other hand, can’t help me manually as he doesn’t live here and when he comes back for the odd weekend, he is too busy meeting up with chums and in-laws that I barely see him, I just provide the bed and breakfast!

OP posts:
Thelittlekingdom · 02/04/2023 10:23

Nothing to do with Chris. I’d personally spend the 5k as it’s an investment in your property. Maybe they could contribute something to shared bills.

Hopelesscynic · 02/04/2023 10:33

Birdsmakingnests · 02/04/2023 10:23

Thank you so much everyone, I’m sitting here crying reading your responses as I know what it’s like to struggle, I know what it’s like to rob Peter to pay Paul.
I know what it’s like to have to ask someone to bail you out.
I want to help them because I am now in a position where I can. But equally, Tim can help me, which he does already.

Chris on the other hand, can’t help me manually as he doesn’t live here and when he comes back for the odd weekend, he is too busy meeting up with chums and in-laws that I barely see him, I just provide the bed and breakfast!

Well there you have further confirmation that it isn't any of Chris' business - not that it ever should be, but given he visits once in a blue moon, treats the place like a hotel and helps with nothing even more so means he has no say! It's not like he is heavily involved in your life or is trying to protect you from being taken advantage of. Sounds like Tim really cares about you and has a reasonable plan for the future, saving for a deposit not like he'll be mooching off you. Chris as a high earner may not be able to fully appreciate Tim's situation. I would tell him it's between you and Tim and you aren't going to discuss it any further. If he continues talking about it, just rinse and repeat and shut down the conversation.
On the other hand, make sure that whatever Tim pays you covers the basic extra costs of him living there. He's still getting a fantastic deal!

titchy · 02/04/2023 10:35

Surely the £5k they pay you back is their rent? The repairs benefit you long term not them!

honeypancake · 02/04/2023 10:39

You don't want to make your son pay rent on a family property that you are not even renting out. I don't see any problems here. It is family, they will live nearby yet separate, he will repay the cost of the refurbishment, the annex gets used. A win-win situation for all! I don't see how this affects Chris, he feels jealous for some reason!

macncheeeesey · 02/04/2023 10:40

Nothing to do with Chris! Charge Tim a few hundred to cover the costs and increase in council tax. He needs the help and sounds like you can offer it. When they move out, you'll have another asset to rent out should you need to.
Sounds like Tim needs the help now whereas Chris doesn't and the fact that Tim has been helping you, I'd be inclined to help him in return.

Hallmark1234 · 02/04/2023 10:43

Sounds to me like Chris is jealous of Tim getting something for nothing (in his eyes), despite him being well off and not giving you the practical and emotional help that Tim has been giving you.

If it works for you and Tim you should go ahead with the plan.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 02/04/2023 10:53

Chris' attitude stinks. I'd understand it more if his brother was a waster, just looking to freeload, but he and his partner work hard, they are fully expecting to contribute, and maybe life hasn't been nearly as kind to them as it has to him.

We've only got one child, so everything we have will eventually all be his anyway, but there's no way we would dream of standing by and seeing him struggle, even if he had a sibling living a comfortable, successful life but still grumbling "It's not fair" like a young child.

Why don't you work out what the deal will be - the facilities offered by the annex and the agreed costs - and then offer it to both Chris and Tim, to swap for their current circumstances? That way, you can then look for a fair way to decide which of the interested parties should get it.... but I somehow doubt that part will be necessary.

Codlingmoths · 02/04/2023 10:56

I’d say Chris, when did you last ask if there’s anything I need doing when you stayed? Your brother regularly helps me out with a range of little things - no you can’t several times a week like he does, but equally he doesn’t have to visit me so often. I want to help him and it’s none of your business. You should try being a little generous and caring yourself perhaps.

dimpleton · 02/04/2023 10:57

I'm not sure why Tim has to pay you back for doing up your own annex, as it will benefit you in the long run. As PP have said, you could us it for air bnb when they've gone.

You don't want to be out of pocket so he should pay for any increased bills, but if he's helping you out around the house (and Chris isn't, as he's 200 miles away) then you're just helping him get on the housing ladder and I wouldn't charge rent.

nokidshere · 02/04/2023 10:59

I would pay for the annex refurb myself because it's my house and I will get the rewards.

I would always let my sons live at home and would only charge them their share of the utility bills, and the difference in council tax if there is one.

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