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Original poster

Son moving back home

53 replies

Birdsmakingnests · 02/04/2023 09:50

I live in a rural, isolated area with no neighbours for 2 miles. I am not lonely, but I have no immediate help or back up if there is an emergency.

I have 2 sons.

Older son, Chris, is married, settled, lives 200 miles away, is a high earner and appears financially secure. Comes home on average once every 3 months for a weekend and I have a spare bedroom to accommodate him and his wife.

Younger son, Tim, has been with his partner for 10 years, I have a good relationship with the partner and Tim. They live together 5 miles from me and pop in 2 or 3 times a week. Tim is a great help if I need assistance doing heavier type jobs about the place.
They are both in full time employment getting minimum wage, rent a private 2 bed house and are struggling to manage financially in their present situation. The past 3 months, they have needed monitory help in order to make ends meet.

I am not in a position to bail them out on a monthly basis so this is not sustainable.

However, I have 1 bedroom self contained annex attached to the house which we have never used to its full potential. It’s currently wind and water tight, needs about 5k spend on it to bring it up to a reasonable standard to live in. It has a seperate electric supply.

Tim has asked if he can move back home and live in the annex. He has asked if I will provide the 5k to do it up and he will pay me back. Then if it needs further money spend on it to meet their needs and taste, they can do that themselves once they are back on their feet.
I am happy to do this. This will give them a bit of financial breathing space and it will have its advantages for me having them here.

We have agreed that Tim will pay for the electricity usage in the annex.

Chris is not happy with this proposal and thinks Tim should be paying rent, even if nominal.

Whats your thoughts, should I charge rent?

OP posts:
millymae · 02/04/2023 11:00

I’m with SlipandSide - in the OPs shoes I’d pay for the refurb and charge my a son a nominal rent which includes electricity and the council tax discount that will be lost.
I say this on the basis that presumably when she dies her assets will be divided equally between two so hopefully the upgrade will ultimately benefit both.
Bearing in mind son 1 doesn’t seem overjoyed about the prospect of son 2 moving into the annex I think it would be wise for the OP to give some thought to what she wants to happen with the property should she suddenly die. I know this isn’t something we like to think about but I get the impression son 1 might be keen to get the property sold asap which could leave son 2 in a difficult position.

Babyroobs · 02/04/2023 11:02

It's nothing to do with the eldest son. If the purpose of them moving in is to save for a deposit for their own home then I wouldn't charge rent. If they are just planning to live there long term, then charge rent.

Hedonism · 02/04/2023 11:08

Chris needs to wind his neck in.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 02/04/2023 11:09

I think Chris might possibly not be so bothered about the current agreement, but might actually be thinking long-term about his inheritance, and worried that what his brother is proposing to do could somehow jeopardise that. Maybe that's what he would be engineering the situation to do, and is suspecting his brother of being as devious as he himself might be. Just surmising; I obviously don't know either of them.

It's very telling when you say that, when Chris gets chance to come back for a 'visit', he's only bothered about seeing his friends and his Mum doesn't appear in his list of priorities, apart from as a provider of free bed and board.

iusedtobeasize8 · 02/04/2023 11:13

I would charge a norminal rent and expect that they would save what they could in order to get on the property ladder.
I wonder if Chris thinks by essentially moving into the family home his is staking his claim on it should anything happen to the OP ?

iusedtobeasize8 · 02/04/2023 11:14

Typo! should say his brother !

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 02/04/2023 11:19

I'd be inclined to work out how much extra it will cost for them to live there and charge them that in money, then boost it to the market rate by them 'paying' the difference in kind - by doing/helping with all of the ad hoc jobs as they're already very willingly doing.

I can't see how Chris could reasonably (and guilt-free) object to that, seeing as he doesn't even bother seeing you much when he comes over, much less helping with any jobs.

kitsuneghost · 02/04/2023 11:38

I think you should help Tim.
Chris should butt out. He has a good wage and the situation really doesn't affect him.
Is he worried about his inheritance with Tim living there?

MajesticWhine · 02/04/2023 11:45

I think Tim paying back the 5k is essentially rent, because it's improving your property that's in your name - plus he should also pay towards some shared costs (water, council tax). But it's none of Chris's business. Tim will be paying his way, and Chris needs to butt out.

MrsSkylerWhite · 02/04/2023 11:47

No rent, they’ll be paying to improve your property. Would expect them to cover bills though.
Its not Chris’ business.

ShandaLear · 02/04/2023 12:00

I would keep this on a business footing and make the two things separate.

  1. I would pay the £5k for the refurb. This will improve the overall value of your property and make it more sellable should you ever need to sell it. It also mean that your son would have no special claim over the property since he didn’t contribute to the refurb - so he wouldn’t have more of a claim than his brother for example. If he did do work you should pay him for the job.
  2. I would rent the finished property out to your son and his partner at something like 20% below market rate. They should have a proper tenancy agreement and be responsible for their own bills. You should pay tax on the income. This will protect them and you should anything go wrong - e.g. if the relationship breaks down you could give them notice in order to get the girlfriend out if required, etc. etc.
CovertImage · 02/04/2023 12:16

There must be a sensible compromise between the ones saying that he shouldn't have to pay anything because True Loving Mothers (TM) should always subsume their own needs - financial or otherwise - and do whatever their kids want and those who think you should become his contracted landlord

determinedtomakethiswork · 02/04/2023 12:44

I would just say to Chris yes thanks, we've sorted it all now and then just not refer to it again. It's nothing to do with him.

I think your goal should be that at the end of your other son's tenancy you are not left out of pocket.

EyesOnThePies · 02/04/2023 13:20

If I lived 200 miles from my mum who lived alone in an isolated house I would be delighted, grateful and re-assured if I had a sibling on hand to help out when needed and visit regularly.

Caterina99 · 02/04/2023 13:33

Chris should keep his nose out! And I say that as the sensible sibling who is very self sufficient and financially stable, whereas my DB has constantly struggled and been helped out by my DP in various ways for years now. it does annoy me a bit, but I keep my mouth shut cos I know I’m lucky not to need the help and also they’d do the same for me if I did need it.

I’d pick a monthly amount that covers the bills and wouldn’t expect to be repaid for the refurb. So maybe £300 or similar a month (don’t know what your bills are, but work it out so you’re not out of pocket). I would expect them to do all decoration etc to the annex and continue to help you out when you need it.

crosstalk · 02/04/2023 13:35

@ShandaLear Totally agree. OP this needs to be a proper tenancy looked at from all angles. Eg if they have children after 10 years together and suggest you move into the annexe and give them your house before they've saved enough? You do have to guard against the worst including Tim (god Forbid) dying and his relict having a lien on your property. It's an awful thought but does happen - and I'm sure Chris will relax a bit knowing you've gone about it thoughtfully.

Original poster
Birdsmakingnests · 02/04/2023 13:41

Thanks again to everyone, all comments have been taken on board.

I wish mumsnet had a “like” button so I could acknowledge everyone’s comments.

OP posts:
MyriadOfTravels · 02/04/2023 14:08

He is paying rent already!! By paying the £5k to redo the annex.

ACynicalDad · 02/04/2023 14:14

Once you’ve had the £5k I’d be tempted to take rent but put it in an account and give it back to him as a deposit boost when he’s nearly ready to buy. You need to treat your kids fairly, not the same. When the other one is in need find a way to help him, do make it clear this will never result in your youngest being given the whole house. I don’t think I’d let him spend more than the 5k, he shouldn’t feel too comfortable there.

MyriadOfTravels · 02/04/2023 14:15

@crosstalk the OP moving into the annex is a really different situation that would need a different evaluation.

Many many parents see their married adult children move back so they can save money. Usually for a few years whilst they are saving fir a deposit. It’s nothing new. The only difference here is that the adult child will have more independence and it will be much easier to handle for both parties than if they were sharing the same house as such.

@Birdsmakingnests have you had a discussion with your older son to see what is bothering him and why he thinks his dbrother should pay rent!

Yellowdays · 02/04/2023 14:23

The one important thing is that the £5k is clearly rent, with you paying the refurb £5k-on your property. Any other way of doing it would open the door to a messy debate down the line about who owed who what, and why.

thatsn0tmyname · 02/04/2023 14:29

Sounds like a good plan if you have everything in writing. The annex stays in your name, if you need to sell the house then the annex is part of it. When they move out you could rent the annex out to top up your future pension.

DemonSpawn · 02/04/2023 16:20

Definitely avoid Tim paying you back for the refurb costs.

Instead you need to get him on a tenancy agreement ideally at about 50% market rate so they can still save their deposit and you will recoup the investment into your property.

This will of course be income for you so may affect any benefits, income tax etc.

Saracen · 05/04/2023 02:22

By the way, when you and Tim are thinking about what it will cost him to live there, note that the self-contained annex is likely to become liable for council tax.

Abcdefgh1234 · 05/04/2023 02:40

if it was me i rather my son to save his money for flat downpayment or renting somewhere else again when he capable than pay me rent. If you not struggling of course.