China covid protests

[Againstmachine]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-63771109

Well chinese are getting sick of rolling lockdowns. And protesting about it.

China's covid policy's haven't worked even though many on here envied them.

Here is hoping they get freedom back.

I'm so worried for them.

Some areas haven't been able to leave their homes at all since August. Can you imagine?
The government's no covid policy is ridiculous and not achievable.

Absolutely the no covid isn't working and won't work, it's horrendous.

I was surprised to read of their no Covid policy perhaps they know something we don't

Twitter has some awful videos on this

I just watched one with the doors being welded onto a block of apartments and people throwing themselves out of windows.

The phrase ‘for the greater good’ is the most vicious phrase known to humankind

I’m hoping these protests make some impact but fear for the lives of those bravely standing up

Shame they didn't accept better vaccines as theirs were crap. I think seeing the World Cup where 1000s of people are together without masks has made them realise the world has moved on and they haven't. Ironic seeing as it originated there...

I don’t think this is a vaccine brand issue @KnottyKnitting 😆

Vaccines are part of it.

The Chinese domestic vaccine isn't as effective as the Western ones and that's been known for some time now. The regime should've utilised this year to get the population the more effective jabs, but for reasons of politics and bluster hasn't. That's one of the reasons why they've felt the need to continue pursuing this impossible containment strategy, despite the cost. I think it would still have happened anyway, given the way in which Xi and co have tried to position China in the fight against covid, all those claims they'd controlled it etc. They invested a lot in trying to be seen as handling it better than the west. But the vaccine issue has exacerbated that.

I wish the protesters all the luck in the world.

Vaccines are a significant part of it. Not only are their vaccines less effective at preventing hospitalisation and death, but they have a much larger proportion of the elderly, more vulnerable population who have not been vaccinated. They know that of they let covid spread they will have a high number of deaths and the healthcare systems will be overwhelmed. Due to poor decisions they are now in a very difficult position.

Zero Covid is not achievable, regardless of regime. The issue is the effectiveness of the vaccine. Xi cannot lose face and admit it is not sufficiently effective. The party promised a relaxation of restrictions and that hasn’t happened, people are queuing night after night to be tested, individual compounds are being locked down and no sense when this will ever change.

This has always concerned me. I do think the Chinese government is more honest in their assessment of the risks of COVID.

I still don't think their zero COVID policy can work since the new variants, but I think ketting it move through populations does have risks.

Agree about the vaccine difference too.

'Letting' implies that it could actually be prevented, that humans exercise some kind of control in that respect. When it comes to Omicron, we don't. It's either it runs through or you have a model like the Chinese have been recently pursuing, which as we are now seeing cannot be imposed forever.

The regime's approach is honest in some ways, in that they know they don't have optimum vaccine coverage, that there'll be deaths and suffering and that half measures aren't going to do anything. But it's not honest in respect of spelling that out or admitting that this is not a long term solution.

I started to think about this in light of a lab leak seeming more and more likely, however I really think it's become

A- more about control
And B- That they have a dense population and inadequate health provision.
C - If they are prepared to back down on zero covid and say they listened to the people, which might feel too risky to them - to let people feel they have too much power, they can then blame them for any inadequacies in health care.

Let's be Frank, this isn't about covid at all. It's about a communist regime wanting to exert the maximum control over its people and smash capitalism, which has been in ascendancy for years.

Covid is just the useful vehicle that 'allows' them to do this.

And as for people 'on here' loving the Chinese covid lockdowns approach , that's just untrue and a point of view peddled by (usually) anti mask/anti-vaxxers for whom any lockdown or restriction was something they deemed unnecessary. Lockdown is a useful tool to curtail and manager the spread of a deadly disease. Used appropriately and fairly it's a good thing (but bloody awful and painful at the same time).

WRT the lab leak theory, while that would make China look worse, it's not like either possibility leaves them smelling of roses, is it? Of the leading theories, the best case scenario is that it emerged because of a cultural practice that has long been identified as risky, and that the regime didn't do enough or cooperate enough to prevent it from escaping. There are obviously discussions to be had about the exact mixture of incompetence and deliberate deception, and about which of these is worse, but at bare minimum it's a very bad look.

And this is an authoritarian regime facing a lot of challenges, who are very sensitive to how they're viewed globally. So I think it's plausible that even the wet market theory could be sufficient explanation for how they've backed themselves into this particular corner.

Not that we're ever going to find out either way, the chances of the regime cooperating with any kind of investigation are approximately zero.

Let's be Frank, this isn't about covid at all. It's about a communist regime wanting to exert the maximum control over its people and smash capitalism, which has been in ascendancy for years.

This. I expect Xi’s goons will crack down hard on those brave protesters.

The protest is also about an horrific fire and the loss of life that could have easily been prevented if doors hadn't been blocked.

I agree about this being a political control tool. It's up there with The Great Leap Forward and The Cultural Revolution.

It's clearly not working effectively as a disease control meaure though is it. After 3 years of ruthless containment and restrictions. It's ruining their economy and international supply chains, and while the government wants to return to 1950s levels of control, it's going to find that it can't function as a modern state/ superpower. People are now fed up enough to risk imprisonment in institutions over imprisonment in their own home.

If it was about saving lives, they wouldn't leave people to burn to death sealed into quarentined apartment blocks (a recent trigger event for this uprising)
There are now serious accidents/ incidents occuring on the train network and its infrastructure because maintainence is being overlooked in the quest for "zero covid".

Scotland never had long term better Covid rates than England despite stricter measures. Any time measures lifted so that society can function, the virus spread and restrictions amplified the natural waves of cases.

@lightlypoached Jeremy Hunt favoured the Chinese approach and a lot of people agreed with him. It is incredibly emotionally abusive to blame and obfuscation to lay blame at the door of people who were against lockdowns. Ive had my vaccines before you start.

Some reminders.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/coronavirus/3854411-Supermarkets-opening-just-for-those-who-shouldnt-even-be-there-Madness

www.mumsnet.com/talk/coronavirus/3857556-Supermarket-special-hour-for-the-elderly-WHO-SHOULD-BE-AT-HOME

I think it's more nuanced than that. I don't think the Chinese government are wanting it to go the way it is right now. I daresay they will prevail over the protesters in time though sadly

What they know is most of their population believe in ineffective Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) and about half of their hospitals are TCM hospitals where they have nothing to treat covid without admitting that their entire healthcare system and its underlying philosophy is built on pseudoscience.

They do not have the western medicine, or enough staff trained in using it, especially doctors, to cope with this pandemic all at once if it rips through China. It’ll make our death rate look like that saccharine ending of The Return Of The King.

Source: I used to live there.

My point was that someone upthread made a goady comment that what the Chinese are doing was what most pearl clutching Mumsnetters were crying out for in the peak. Not true at all.

I thought that was just a bit of an unreasonable comparison, probably made by a person who likely hated any (necessary and sensible) precautions we had here. I'm glad you E had your vaccinations, I have too 😊

That a government politician here made a bad call, is frankly unsurprising. Our current government is a shit show of incompetence and they excelled at that throughout the pandemic. But also to be fair (and I'm gritting my teeth saying this) it was an immensely difficult path to navigate.

Many on here did want Chinese lock downs to pretend they didn't is just gaslighting and pure lieing.

Hope the Chinese get there freedoms back but I doubt it.