It feels like the pandemic has ruined everything

[Triing]

It ruined friendships, driving people apart. It ruined this website with some of the terrible things that people wrote deliberately to upset others. The community in the place where I live has been torn asunder. Backbiting, sanctimoniousness, judgmentalism. People with 2.4 children and big gardens both ignoring and patronising those in different situations. British politics is ruined, awful untrustworthy governments, the economy is ruined and it just feels the world is going to hell in a handcart. I know there are bright spots too, but it really feels like a public reckoning and healing of all that has been said and done that is wrong is necessary, but no-one wants to do it, just carry on, pretend it never happened then use the war in Ukraine as a way to try to shut people up (you'd have something to complain about if you were in Mariupol etc, the 2022 software update of WW2, Blitz etc)

Yes, definitely. Which is also the reason why I don't think another lockdown at least in this pandemic is possible. You need a middle ground where a virus is dangerous enough that most of the population will accept at least some restrictions, even with the detriment they cause. But simultaneously also not so dangerous that the people whose work outside the home keeps society functioning (a very broad group) refuse to do it, and also not dangerous enough for social unrest to kick in. I don't see that this specific middle ground, which did exist earlier in the pandemic, is still there now, nor how it could exist again in the near future.

I agree with you that as and when we get something that presents a genuine danger to most or even a more significant minority of the population, with the level of connectedness we have now it, very serious unrest would be the best case scenario. We'd be doing well to keep society functioning.

I think it would be very hard to get such public support for a lockdown again even for a new virus with the exact same risk profile as this one.

A lot of people supported the spring 2020 lockdowns because they believed it was a short-term, temporary measure, where more lockdown now meant more freedom sooner. That’s not what happened. So even people who might, in theory, be fine with the idea of an 8-week lockdown for something will be less likely to support it if they think 8 weeks will roll on and on and on, and the government will have to be virtually dragged kicking and screaming away from restrictions in the end.

Me, for example: I trust my government to respond fast and do something if there’s a new disease. I trust them to mean well. But based on this pandemic I don’t trust them to be evidence-based in what they’re doing, I don’t trust them to see the bigger picture, I don’t trust them to give up emergency powers once they’ve got them. And once that trust is gone it is very very hard to get it back.

But based on this pandemic I don’t trust them to be evidence-based in what they’re doing, I don’t trust them to see the bigger picture, I don’t trust them to give up emergency powers once they’ve got them.

Yes I agree with all that and I think it's a perfectly legitimate position based on their handling of the last few years.

It was awful but I feel so grateful that the worst of it is behind us and I didn't lose anyone to it. That is such luck. It could have been so much worse for me personally, even though being trapped in a flat with no garden with a toddler was awful and I also had a high risk pandemic pregnancy that was frightening to go through alone (I mostly laboured alone due to restrictions, I had an induction ).
Things are different now but they have the chance to improve again and I've stopped taking so many things for granted

The pandemic has exposed a lot of inequality in this country that wasn't as obvious before but it doesn't mean it wasn't there.
Politics was shit way before Covid - they've just given up pretending And so are just going all out evil bastards and getting everything through whilst they still can.
Personally blame labour for picking the wrong Miliband brother... if they had been a little bit more saavy about image then we might have been in a different place (half joking about this)
I think the evolution of SM and how we get and process 'news' has a lot to answer for and that combined with the difficulties of a global pandemic has really not helped society but I think the pandemic didn't cause that it was already there it just channeled some of that energy in a particular direction.

@GoldenOmber @TheKeatingFive Government has already given up its emergency covid powers. You may (IMO rightly) have concerns about the powers contained in some the proposed legislation in the queen's speech about protest rights and the bill of rights, but that a separate thing.
Let's not create a worse issue by peddling disinformation about existing democratic rights

True, consent for lockdowns was rolling rather than upfront. It would've at minimum been a harder sell if people were told it was going to happen for months rather than weeks. That's contributed to a level of distrust now. It was visible in the public discussion of responses to Omicron at the start of the wave, people didn't believe circuit breakers would only be circuit breakers etc. This is another reason I don't think there can be another lockdown or significant level of restrictions in the near future, ie during this pandemic.

That said, I don't know how far this is permanently baked in. Don't believe them when they say it's only for a couple of weeks might be one of those things we all pass down to our children and grandchildren and that's still very much a factor in our culture in three, four, five decades time. Or it might fade. Trust in our political class was pretty low at the start of 2020, Brexit in particular did a lot of damage to that, but there was still considerable willingness to trust in the government. A lot depends on how Partygate resolves itself too.

So you might be right, but I think it's a sufficiently hard call that we need to ensure we're very clear about the positives and negatives of lockdown so we have an idea whether it's a viable option for the future. Whether it should be part of the pandemic toolkit or not.

I agree with you about not trusting this particular government, although I don't know how much of that is about them not understanding evidence and how much is them understanding it just fine but finding it inconvenient. History does tell us that states tend to be reluctant to give up emergency powers so we'd do well to be very cautious there too.

Government has already given up its emergency covid powers.

You can still argue they held on to them for too long though

AppleandRhubarbTart:
I think it's a sufficiently hard call that we need to ensure we're very clear about the positives and negatives of lockdown so we have an idea whether it's a viable option for the future. Whether it should be part of the pandemic toolkit or not.

That would be really good. There's been so much mud-slinging and vitriol from both sides of the pro- and anti-lockdown camps, and people have got so emotionally invested in the question - as we've seen on MN - that it's become almost impossible to take an objective look at whether it was a good policy or a bad one, or perhaps a good policy badly implemented, or the other way around. And even if analysts did come up with a conclusion, half the population would say it was complete rubbish, no matter what it was. As another PP said, we've lost our trust.

What I'd like to see is some more dispassionate forward planning, for the inevitable day when another disease strikes. There's been so much chewing over issues like, say, who got the contracts to supply PPE. Yes, this is important, because so much public money was wasted -- but really I'm more interested in the question of whether we now have a big enough stockpile of PPE for the future. Not just "did we do the right thing?" but "will we be able to sort it even better next time?"

Absolutely. You phrased all this better than me. I don't think it's possible now but we've got to do the best we can at it in the future. It's got to be dispassionate, honest about the way that locking down or not involves a choice about who to prioritise, and will require accepting that there is no 'the science' because that's not the way public health responses to pandemics work.

I think the proof of this is how people have withdrawn from the labour market in the U.K. - I was going to work much later but my last work experience was so unpleasant in the NHS I finally decided to say did it at age 63. Don't miss it at all.

Your Brexit? You fix it.

@Wonkylegs "Personally blame labour for picking the wrong Miliband brother"

...... that's 100% correct and a defining point for the beginning of the end of British democratic politics.

Yours, maybe. My government here in Scotland still have theirs are currently trying to legislate to make some permanent.

It's interesting, quite a few of the primary carers I know are working fewer hours than they were in February 2020. Me included, actually. I dropped some stuff because I wanted to give our household the best chance of managing rolling isolations, any ad hoc school closures that might come our way etc, and haven't gone back up. Basically a response to no longer being able to count on DC actually being in school. I know this has been replicated nationally too.

@wonkylegs @j712adrian yes David milliband we would be looking at a totally different world now fux sake I had forgotten about that defining moment

I think the pandemic has polarised so much I lost my businesses in covid and had to take a job with the dwp jeez god in heaven a more shambolic organisation I have never had the experience to work with. I have been signed off sick with PTSD from what happened to me in the pandemic it’s been awful for so many - kids losing their education their social lives so much discord the difference between the haves and have nots seem to be wider now people look older more fed up the cost of living etc

@AngelicaElizaAndPeggy I totally agree. We moved out to Copenhagen in Oct 20 (just moved back 5 days ago) - and the difference was palpable, they still had lockdowns but it was all very specific and controlled. There were no shortages (because they didn't have Brexit and therefore logistical problems in the mix) - lots of free and convenient testing, and by the way I had my vaccinations at exactly the same time I would have had them in the UK. When hospitality resumed you had to have a vaccination pass for first 4 months- this encouraged high levels of vaccination- they had an emergency plan ready to run , no stories of dodgy contracts for mates etc . Businesses were well supported financially- most have reopened. Maybe if the government hadn't spaffed £200 billion on Brexit that has no discernible benefits apart from appealing to xenophobes , shoring up the UKIP mentality in the Tory's or hiding taxable income for multi millionaires then the country would have had a lot more cash available to actually support individuals and business at all income levels.

Whilst I can see why those doing very nicely and with tax to hide overseas vote Tory, anyone working class doing so - I really don't expect to see any moans on cost of living threads , lack of affordable housing or inability to get tradesmen or business moving to the EU etc - you voted for exactly what was easily predicted with a gvt who would turn it into the USA but without any of the good bits and with a continent on the doorstep to snaffle business and workers. Polish HGV drivers for instance have now tried out places like Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands and realised that they can get by with English, earn better and have better conditions.

Personally, my experience of the pandemic wasn't too bad. Kept our jobs, understanding bosses meant we could wfh and homeschool, and the ages of our DC during the first lockdown (2 and 4) meant they didn't miss out on too much. We were bloody lucky. But I can see how devastating it has been for so many, and the implications for business, travel, city centres, NHS etc will be felt for decades after. Brexit pushed us to the edge...covid is tipping us over. Sympathy to all those who've been badly affected.

Similar !

We lost about £20,000 in family income in less than a year,
Plus dh was at high risk of redundancy (luckily he did get his job back but we had six months of worry that he wouldn't )

I had to sell actual possessions to pay our mortgage and buy food

It also gave me a massive distrust of people in general as so many turned into utter cunts

The stockpiling and hoarding of bogroll

The sanctimonious judgemental pricks grassing their neighbours up for perceived rule breaking

The self appointed mask police

I could go on

@shebuildsquickmachines “It also gave me a massive distrust of people in general as so many turned into utter cunts

The stockpiling and hoarding of bogroll

The sanctimonious judgemental pricks grassing their neighbours up for perceived rule breaking

The self appointed mask police“

I agree with this, and also with the OP.

Several people I know who were perfectly friendly with each other before Covid started turning on each other for perceived rule breaking.

In our local Facebook parenting group people would attack others for wanting to take their kids out for a walk (which wasn’t against any rules anyway) and post pictures of „rule breakers“ outside they would take from their windows.

There was just so much hostility towards each other, especially in the beginning of the pandemic.