It feels like the pandemic has ruined everything

[Triing]

It ruined friendships, driving people apart. It ruined this website with some of the terrible things that people wrote deliberately to upset others. The community in the place where I live has been torn asunder. Backbiting, sanctimoniousness, judgmentalism. People with 2.4 children and big gardens both ignoring and patronising those in different situations. British politics is ruined, awful untrustworthy governments, the economy is ruined and it just feels the world is going to hell in a handcart. I know there are bright spots too, but it really feels like a public reckoning and healing of all that has been said and done that is wrong is necessary, but no-one wants to do it, just carry on, pretend it never happened then use the war in Ukraine as a way to try to shut people up (you'd have something to complain about if you were in Mariupol etc, the 2022 software update of WW2, Blitz etc)

I think the impacts have been highly polarised.

So many people's businesses dried up almost overnight. I heard about a catering business established 20 years folded. All the wedding bookings cancelled, then all the corporate Christmas parties.

People with sick or elderly relatives who suffered or died alone.

Young children's education messed up. Some are still struggling going back to the discipline of the classroom.

But others, who were office based, and able to work from home, myself included, had much less disruption. DH had a 20% pay cut despite still working more than full time (in solidarity) but then we had no petrol costs.

I only know of one person who died of Covid.

Our DC are older and could self teach. We didn't have to try to home educate primary aged DC whilst also working.

And I was able to spend Ddog's last two years with him 24/7.

Our Covid experience was completely different to so many others, but that was luck, not anything clever on our part.

My DS was 13 and home alone for six working weeks until he was offered a place at school. He stopped communicating with his friends completely and took six months to get back to his usual self. When the schools closed again I sent him in without a second thought!

My DGM significantly lost independence and mobility, and other elderly relatives had cognitive function impacted by the loss of normal social occasions such as church events and talking at the pub. I saw people easily decline five years in one or two.

It was a mismanaged disaster and I'm not sure who got saved, if I'm honest.

on a personal level, my Dad's mobility is shot after two years of sitting indoors instead of walking to the allotment and the pub. My teenagers are trying to do exams after missing huge chunks of classroom learning and aren't interested in planning for the future - half-hearted 6th form applications have been submitted by the youngest but the eldest is adamant he's not going to university. On a general level the NHS is about to fall over, there's a backlog of driving tests (so the next generation of teens can't drive, shortage of lorry drivers...), there's a supply chain crisis for everything from paper to vehicles.

I'm not sure who got saved, if I'm honest

yep

@Pyewhacket - I'm suprised you said you worked in ICU as I was about to ask if you were from conservative central office as your post sounded like a press release from them. Yep they are simply amazing!! I'm no hard lefty at all but they have managed to kill off quite a few people's businesses I know, not covid but certainly Brexit- it's totally killed so many small business that involved mail order and were not Just UK centric, they have been feathering their mates nests nicely with dodgy untendered contracts, were clearly carrying on as normal with little soirées whilst women were giving birth alone and yet you can't get wound up about them . ? Just wow

I think it's also affected a lot of couples relationships- so much more time together due to WFH in some cases-- for some this is A bonus- for others not so much !! And I know several women who admit they find it far more claustrophobic

Completely agree. Lockdowns were punitive of anyone not a boomer/ sitting in their lovely middle class gardens lazing on furlough, but no one cared as the Tories' key voting demographic was being protected. I have no respect or ties left to society anymore after being told I just needed "stay the fuck home" working 14 hour days in a flat without a garden whilst they made memories and baked banana bread.

I've just had to buy a house so that no one can EVER ban me from sitting in the sun again and genuinely can't see me ever being how I was - I volunteered for so many things, now all I do is Brownies so that I can do my bit towards repairing the terrible abuse we subjected our children to.

But it won't ever be the same again, especially with the ultimate selfishness that is Brexit.

I know not everybody rates Dr Fauci, American chief medical advisor, but he said something right at the beginning of the pandemic that has stuck with me. Paraphrasing — “any successful measures in this pandemic will look like an overreaction”. Simply put, successfully diverting or preventing the worst outcomes always remains an abstract if you’re successful.

That’s not to downplay the realities of what actually happened to people but the threats to multiple levels of society were very real. The impacts were largely successfully lessened but they were never going to be completely avoided. We know what happens in communities struck on a large scale by infectious diseases, we have evidence from past centuries right up to today. We have a complicated political background to todays concerns, that imho, is where our worst failures lie, I do believe that we could do better if not perfect.

I just want to take issue with the idea that only those who were living lovely lives supported lockdowns. Our family was badly impacted, husband's line of work shut down and is still not fully reopened, a year without work, other financial/life impacts. I still felt and feel that lockdown was, basically, necessary.

I read once that bitterness is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other person to die. COVID was hard for the majority of people and disproportionately hard on some. But most people are decent people. Blame the government for the lack of support and the policy failures.

“any successful measures in this pandemic will look like an overreaction”.

This is a very good point, also known as the Millennium Bug effect.

I agree with Millenium Bug effect - and people were actually citing the fact the Millenium Bug didn't amount to much as a reason we didn't need lockdown!

Well blaming the gov is a bit pointless as we vote them in. I would say consumerism is the problem - contributing to global warming etc but no one much is fighting it - lots of posts on here about clothes styles to buy, new kitchens holidays, less on doing without. It's like a tanker we need to turn round but that takes time.

Bot there is an extreme heatwave in India, less food products from Ukraine , shortage of fertiliser, high priced diesel - it's ok now we are eating last years crops but next year it's going to be seriously bad.

Hmmm, yes and no. I get what he means, but there's quite an important part being left out here. That is, the non-covid outcomes. The possibility that a successful measure might cause more problems than it averted. 'Worst outcomes' doesn't simply mean covid.

I'm of the view that for the general lockdown, the jury's still out at this point: there are some obviously ridiculous smaller policies, but the wider picture, I think we're going to need some distance. Especially as we have no historical examples of dealing with infectious diseases in this specific way. It really is all new.

But it's possible to conceive of a measure that worked in covid suppression terms, caused more harm than it prevented in wider terms and therefore is correctly seen as an overreaction for that reason. Which I don't think is quite what Fauci was getting at, or at least that's not the way it's being argued here.

I would have clicked yabu on this OP; not because I disagree with you, but because I think covid was just the extra frosting on the cake the tories have baked over the last 12 years - austerity, cuts, brexit, huge wealth inequality, shaving our public sector to the bone. It's made us more fearful, suspicious, guarded, jealous and riven wedges everywhere. All of this has been broadcast and showcased by social media.

And the tories genuinely don't seem to give a shit what they've done.

So yes, covid has done this, but the cake was already baked.

This is the problem with shaving everything down to the bone, so there's no slack in the system. When the shit hits the fan, you're so much more limited in what you can do and people suffer. This is true of a number of things the Tories have done since 2010, of course. I think for structural reasons the UK was always going to be hard hit as soon as something like this came along.

I don't think it ruined much, may have highlighted things your didn't want to acknowledge. If your friends have taken a step back then that's their choice, they've shown their true colours.

@AppleandRhubarbTart I took Dr Fauci at the time to be talking about more than just health outcomes and acknowledging the wider impacts of any interventions and the monumental burdens they placed on peoples lives. Dr Fauci, Chris Witty etc are tasked with the aim of maintaining the health of populations. Health in and of itself is of no value if the people who have it don’t lead lives. Their aim is to keep people leading those lives.

I know there’s been controversy around him (that I don’t particularly buy into personally) but that doesn’t take away from the fact he’s very experienced in infectious diseases (HIV, Ebola, swine flu, SARS) and has seen the other side of the curtain. He knows what’s at stake and how fragile society and resources can actually be. When he talks, I’m inclined to listen.

It has and that is why there is a huge cost of living rise.. kids education / mental health impacted

i wonder if those mumsnetters who were screaming for schools to close and lockdowns, who enjoyed baking sour dough whilst on furlough are now moaning about cost of living rises??

I didn't hear the quote in context so couldn't say. If that's what he meant though, I don't think your 'Simply put, successfully diverting or preventing the worst outcomes always remains an abstract if you’re successful' statement a few posts ago is an accurate description, because it's conflating worst outcomes wrt covid with worst outcomes per se. A big part of where we are at the moment is that we can't make that call yet, we don't have the information we need. We're still living through it. Lockdown as we have experienced it in the past two years is something brand new.

A big part of where we are at the moment is that we can't make that call yet, we don't have the information we need

I’m not entirely sure we ever will have that information, at least not information beyond interpretation and speculation. There are so many factors leading to each individual circumstance unpicking cause/effect is an almost impossible task.

What we can do is address the here and now. We can clearly see large numbers of people enduring mental health, physical health and financial hardships. When I say the roots in any of these being in the pandemic is largely irrelevant it’s because that’s done, it’s unchangeable, but there are other factors that are still within our control and possibly fix some of these hardships or at least accept circumstances and look forward iyswim. @

That's true, we may not ever have it. We definitely don't now, though. I would agree we need to name the problems we face and take action as best we can, since there's nothing that can be done about the past.

I do however think we also need to get as close as we possibly can to ascertaining whether lockdown was worth it, or at least to get as much information as we can, because of the future. While there's no chance the UK is having another lockdown in this pandemic, it's still happening elsewhere and might again before this one is over, and it's part of the toolkit for future pandemics now. The use of lockdown to tackle Covid 19 wasn't and couldn't be one informed by past experiences, but we do have that opportunity in the future.

The use of lockdown to tackle Covid 19 wasn't and couldn't be one informed by past experiences, but we do have that opportunity in the future.

I agree with this, there’s plenty I could comment at the time and now with hindsight.

I don’t think we can say with 100% certainty what will happen going forward. Part of the reasoning behind lockdowns and restrictions is that controlled lockdowns would give us a better point for recovery rather than allowing a de facto lockdown when people do what they do when they’re threatened which is panic.

we experienced some of this last Christmas when people were concerned about the new Omicron. Things were largely back to normal and people could do as they pleased yet the hospitality industry still experienced a slow down of business and were calling for government support. People do restrict themselves if they can’t gauge the risk. Granted isolations were still a ‘thing’ but there was a growing group rejecting the idea of testing at all. Not enough to avert the economical impact hospitality felt though. Individuals also started restricting themselves in Feb/March 2020 despite our government quite clearly not raising the alarm till quite late on.

Its a tough balance between reactive and proactive, public behaviour is one of the drivers. People take it to extremes at either end which is unhelpful but that’s how we’re wired. Intervention should be to balance that.

Its a tough balance between reactive and proactive, public behaviour is one of the drivers. People take it to extremes at either end which is unhelpful but that’s how we’re wired. Intervention should be to balance that.

What's really scary is that the people who took extreme anti-lockdown positions, such as some PP above in this thread, have doubled down on their positions and now feel vindicated about the strong stance they took.

Which means that if another pandemic comes along - as it may well do - they will knee-jerk reject any kind of government initiative to make people lock down. Even if the next one is much more harmful than Covid, with higher fatality rates. That could get very nasty indeed.

Yup, but equally a different view point would be concerned about the level of government interference and the potential for misuse or abdication of responsibility of that power. Neither end of the scale are completely without merit but extremism is where the danger lies imho.

I think it’s not a bad exercise to find the logic in what you disagree with, even if it doesn’t change your mind. Sometimes it will highlight absolute failings or misunderstanding but sometimes, if it basically comes down to feelings, then at least you are at a point of recognising what your own stance is based on. I think there’s a lot of conflation between facts/feelings that is very unhelpful.

Even if the next one is much more harmful than Covid, with higher fatality rates. That could get very nasty indeed.

In this situation, you'd have a much more significant issue in the other direction. Persuading essential workers to keep society going while taking much greater risk with their own lives. I expect you'd have societal breakdown very quickly.

Covid wasn't a very significant threat to the healthy, working age population, which is why the model worked. Change that dynamic and it all falls apart.