What will happen with schools from Friday?

[Kabs30]

No pcrs!
No free lfts!

I have a couple boxes of lft's for now but when they run out, I won't be able to afford to buy them every time my kids have cold like symptoms. Plus let's face it, lft's aren't overly accurate so a negative lft does not mean someone hasn't got covid either.

are we just treating it as an illness as we would before covid? Keep them off if too unwell and send them back with better. Send them in with mild sniffles?

Covid is quite high at my kids school at the minute!

My DC primary school now only requires LFT for symptoms so positive isolate, negative carry on as normal. DD had a cough a few weeks ago so I tested every day for a week and it continued to be negative and she was well apart from the cough so she continued to go to school, she still has the lingering cough should I have kept her off for weeks then? Bonkers

[quote carefullycourageous]@Scornedwoman67

Not in the death cert figures you wouldn't. It is you who is misrepresenting. There are two sources of death figures.[/quote]
Not sure about now but I'm sure mid pandemic medical professionals were admitting that Covid was being used as the reason for death even if you'd actually died from something else but tested positive.

It's so so difficult. Yes, for some it's like a cold. My DH had it and had about a day of feeling rubbish. I now have it and spent 3 days unable to move in bed, and now I am struggling to move around for more than a few mins without collapsing in exhaustion.

The trouble with this virus is there is no way of knowing how it will hit you or how you will feel. I am super fit and work out 5 days a week and now I can hardly walk up the stairs. It's still early days for me but I have friends and colleagues suffering from long term problems and it is insulting to hear some people use sweeping statements about it being just a cold.

You just dont know what it will do to you until you have it.

This makes it incredibly difficult to know what to do about it. I have no idea. I have 2 DDs in primary school and I certainly dont want them missing any more school, but acting like Covid is no big deal isnt the answer either.

@Rosebel no, that really isn't what qualified medical professionals were doing, you have been reading conspiracy theories.

Falsifying a death certificate is a criminal offence and would see a doctor struck off. Lying on the internet to gullible people carries few penalties though, so it is easy to make stuff up like that unfortunately.

Currently after all our vaccination efforts we have 1000+ people per week dying from COVID.
Nope. Not true. Never been true.

[quote carefullycourageous]@Rosebel no, that really isn't what qualified medical professionals were doing, you have been reading conspiracy theories.

Falsifying a death certificate is a criminal offence and would see a doctor struck off. Lying on the internet to gullible people carries few penalties though, so it is easy to make stuff up like that unfortunately.[/quote]

This has actually happened. My husband has a friend who has fought for covid to be removed from their fathers death certificate because it was not the main cause of his death. The father indeed died with covid, but died because of entirely different reasons.

It has been true previously

And it's at 998 in the last 7 days, we're pretty close to it again

(Obvs will have to wait for the full ONS death certificate numbers to verify the of/contributed/unrelated question, but the differences are typically v v small)

My husband has a friend who has fought for covid to be removed from their fathers death certificate because it was not the main cause of his death. The father indeed died with covid, but died because of entirely different reasons
Your DH's friend appears to misunderstandthe death certification procedure.

It doesn't list only the main cause.

And unless the entirely different reasons were something like an instantly fatal accident, then listing covid as a contributing factor is overwhelmingly likely to be entirely correct

@IEatChocolateForBreakfast was COVID the only thing on the death certificate? Did COVID cause complications and hence hasten death.

DF had quite a few medical issues listed on his death certificate (pre COVID)

Not sure about now but I'm sure mid pandemic medical professionals were admitting that Covid was being used as the reason for death even if you'd actually died from something else but tested positive.

You're sure are you? Which medical professionals? A chiropractor or chiropodist? Not an epidemiologist certainly.

This has actually happened. My husband has a friend who has fought for covid to be removed from their fathers death certificate because it was not the main cause of his death. The father indeed died with covid, but died because of entirely different reasons.

Can't believe that we are still doing this. Care to explain excess deaths.

I've looked at many, many death certificates and it's perfectly normal to list all contributing factors to someone's death. There is rarely just one cause and covid would certainly have contributed if someone was in an already weakened state.

It's always a friend of a friend in these stories.

@Happymum12345

A parent knowingly sent her dc into my class at school today. There was nothing I could do about it. Most people don’t care and what f they’re ok, it doesn’t matter about anyone else.

My grandchildren have been off school with covid since last Thursday. The teacher of one of them is off with covid too.

And it's at 998 in the last 7 days, we're pretty close to it again
My understanding is that these deaths were of people who tested positive 28 days before but many died of other causes.

Re the death certificate thing, I don't have all the details. All I was saying was that it has happened with my husbands friend. They were not happy it was listed on the certificate and wanted it removed. From what I understood (this happened last summer, so can't entirely remember) was that the father had cancer and dementia. He had been declining for some time and the family knew he didn't have long. It wasn't until after he died that they found out he also had covid.

@SonicBroom

Thinking about it abit more I think one of the biggest issues is that covid is now almost uniquely an exercise in politicians making decisions over our health. They’re not “following the science” they’re picking and choosing what suits them, so you can understand why so many people don’t want to be herded like lemmings and prefer to make their own decisions… especially with the govt we have here.

And they always did - right from the beginning. They deliberately scared us because it suited the agenda at the time. Now, as a country, we can no longer afford to pay people to stay at home so the ‘science’ has changed again.

That’s why it’s time to use our own common sense and judgement and take responsibility for our own health and to stop fussing about whether others are ‘doing the right thing’

As so many have already said, this virus is not going to go away. People can complain all they like but it won’t make it disappear. Lockdowns/restrictions don’t work. They might delay the inevitable for a short time, but it’s a fact of life that we’re all going to get it at some point - vaccinated or not. You only have to see the draconian and extreme measures in China. They manage to squash it temporarily but it still breaks out regardless and you can bet the ‘official’ figures are completely different from the real ones.

The best move would be to stop the publication of the covid figures. What difference do they make now apart from causing unnecessary anxiety?

@IEatChocolateForBreakfast

Re the death certificate thing, I don't have all the details. All I was saying was that it has happened with my husbands friend. They were not happy it was listed on the certificate and wanted it removed. From what I understood (this happened last summer, so can't entirely remember) was that the father had cancer and dementia. He had been declining for some time and the family knew he didn't have long. It wasn't until after he died that they found out he also had covid.

I believe you. My MIL died in May 2020 and the doctor actually discussed with us whether to put covid as a contributory factor in her death despite her not having been tested.

This is from the U.K. government Guidance for doctors completing medical certificates of cause of death in England and Wales.

“Medical practitioners are required to certify causes of death “to the best of their knowledge and belief”. Without diagnostic proof, if appropriate and to avoid delay, medical practitioners can circle ‘2’ in the MCCD (“information from post-mortem may be available later”) or tick Box B on the reverse of the MCCD for ante-mortem investigations. For example, if before death the patient had symptoms typical of COVID- 19 infection, but the test result has not been received, it would be satisfactory to give ‘COVID-19’ as the cause of death, tick Box B and then share the test result when it becomes available. In the circumstances of there being no swab, it is satisfactory to apply clinical judgement”

Worth also bearing in mind that between half and two thirds of those currently in hospital with covid are actually there for other reasons and just happened to test positive.

@IEatChocolateForBreakfast DF had cancer and dementia (and he was old). All these were on his death certificate. So why would they want COVID off his death certificate, it’s quite possible that it hastened his death. Like many old people die of pneumonia as a result of other health conditions

I don't work in the medical field but I know people who do. Technically it's not falsifying a death certificate because they did have Covid.

@DementedPanda

Don't know, but our primary is still very strict. Insisting on masks on pick up drop off, years 3 to 6 go in gates by themselves, teachers wearing masks. They regularly send kids home for testing... eee he coughed once.. test.

That's so daft that I don't actually believe you.

No way wod I wear a mask - they can fuck off.

What do you suggest then? Any pearls of wisdom? I can’t wait to hear

Wow - how rude.

The problem is that nobody is going to stay of work or school with every cold because there's no access to testing.

No, people are going to work to get paid. And students are going to school to learn and prepare for upcoming exams!

Even with free testing most people would go to school and work!

Testing is part of it, but it's only one of a number of factors. It's true that there are some people who are willing to test regularly, plus can and will isolate with minor symptoms. Those people's behaviour will probably change as a direct result of tests no longer being free. Equally, a society needs a lot more than free LFT access to get people with a snotty nose or a slight headache to all stay at home even if they know they've got covid. There are lots of people for whom the end of free testing won't change their behaviour at all.

@Rosebel

I don't work in the medical field but I know people who do. Technically it's not falsifying a death certificate because they did have Covid.

It's NOT falsifying a death certificate at all. Nothing "technical" about it.

Exactly even with testing people will go to work. I for one would as I’m currently not on a permanent contract. No way I’m staying at home not getting paid if I’m feeling okay to work.

@BustopherPonsonbyJones I won't, and hasn't happened yet, nor has it happened to any other friends and colleagues up and down the country with school age kids, in fact the only place I have read about it happening is on mumsnet.