5 - 11 year olds to be allowed vaccine in wales

[RedToothBrush]

Adrian Masters @adrianmasters84
1/3 The health minister has confirmed that children aged between 5 and 11 year olds here in Wales will be offered covid vaccinations.

2/3 Eluned Morgan told Senedd Members: “Whilst yet to be published officially by the JCVI, I have received JCVI advice regarding the vaccination of all 5-11 year olds and I have agreed it and we are working with health boards on implementing the offer.”

3/3 There’s been a delay to the official announcement, reportedly because of disagreements between the UK Government and the JCVI. Although it’s thought to have made its decision more than a week ago, the recommendation is not expected to be announced until the 21st February.

I'm in England so I don't know which why the government will go for England on this yet, but it looks likely that all 5 to 11 year olds will be offered the vaccine on a not urgent basis.

I'm not entirely sure how i feel about this nor what i will do.

Its not an issue with travel to most places (there are places its now an issue though) and there are potential implications for travel insurance (you may not be covered for covid related healthcare if you have been offered the vaccine).

I don't know if having it purely for travel purposes in this age group is a good thing or not.

DS is 7. He has had covid.

Genuinely don't know what we will do.

There is always the prospect of a new variant and whether being vaxxed is better for children.

In terms of disruption to school, i think the horse has well and truly bolted on that one.

I don't think im alone in thinking like this and will struggle to know what to do.

Just adding in from Scotland, absolutely no intention of allowing my under 12yo to be vaccinated. I didn’t have the booster, after some careful consideration myself, so would never reach a decision that my young child needs it. Utterly pointless at preventing it, spreading it and as has been the case, wouldn’t reduce any illness levels given they barely have the sniffles with it in this age group. It’s already given some parents a talking point on our WhatsApp school groups ‘is X having it?’ Absolutely nothing at all to do with anyone else. Your child, your choice. The children have the right to keep their medical status private too, just like adults. I won’t be asking anyone and anyone who asks me directly will be told exactly how far to go away.

It's Sweden and Norway who have not recommended it. Those big nasty anti-vax nations

@leafyygreens

There is not a plausible mechanism.

So do enlighten us to the mechanism which is disrupting women's menstrual cycle. The one that doesn't exist because the spike protein doesn't go around the body?

I do laugh at your constant misinformation claims, the ones you make without disputing anything that has been said with anything other than your opinion

@hamstersarse

It's Sweden and Norway who have not recommended it. Those big nasty anti-vax nations

@leafyygreens

There is not a plausible mechanism.

So do enlighten us to the mechanism which is disrupting women's menstrual cycle. The one that doesn't exist because the spike protein doesn't go around the body?

I do laugh at your constant misinformation claims, the ones you make without disputing anything that has been said with anything other than your opinion

Yet again you have misunderstood and are just demonstrating you don't read post replies @hamstersarse

I'll copy and paste - here's my full post

There is not a plausible mechanism.Vaccines do not hang around in your body. This is why there no rationale for long-term emerging side effects.

It is not possible that vaccinating a child will have have a future effect on menstruration years later.

So do enlighten us to the mechanism which is disrupting women's menstrual cycle. The one that doesn't exist because the spike protein doesn't go around the body?

I have posted before about how vaccination & coronavirus infection can disrupt the menstrual cycle and cause these side effects, and relevant studies, data, and reserach grants awarded to look it into this, including mentioning it on the current thread.

I find your posts baffling.

In today's guardian analysis article it says that in Germany parents can have their children of this age in vaccinated if they wish and after a consultation with a Dr but that they don't "recommend" it

@leafyygreens

Hmm I'm not sure it is me who is not answering the question.

You say there is no plausible mechanism, vaccines do not hang around your body. I would say 'prove that'! That was the original claim from the manufacturers, granted, but there is lots emerging to question that - the biodistribution studies show that it goes into particularly the ovaries and the bone marrow.

So no, I didn't misunderstand, I was asking you to back up your claim that the vaccine doesn't travel around the body and your claim that "it is not possible that vaccinating will have a future effect on menstruation years later". That last one is a big claim, for example. And one way to examine it would be for you to explain the (non-existent) mechanism that is impacting menstruation and show that that will definitely have no impact on growing girl's bodies. Since you make such a bold claim, I would imagine you have fully done your research

I'm triple vaccinated so not anti Vax, I live in Wales.

I will not be vaccinating DS age 7.

To be honest we've done the entire pandemic, me working full time in a frontline role (hence why I am vaccinated). I never locked myself away, and we've never caught it. Not once. It's not like I have managed to miss it because due to work I've had to test a mixture of daily or every 48hours. 🤷🏻‍♀️

So I'm going to leave it for now.

Today 16:01Volhhg

In today's guardian analysis article it says that in Germany parents can have their children of this age in vaccinated if they wish and after a consultation with a Dr but that they don't "recommend" it

I have posted before about how vaccination & coronavirus infection can disrupt the menstrual cycle and cause these side effects, and relevant studies, data, and reserach grants awarded to look it into this, including mentioning it on the current thread.

So on the same page you claim:

• There is no mechanism for this to happen / no way menstruation could be impacted years later (in context of children)

AND

• Concede that menstruation has been impacted by the vaccines

Now that's baffling

@hamstersarse

I do not even know where to begin

It is not possible for cDNA or mRNA to persist in vivo. Decades of research demonstrate how short lived it is, and how quickly it is degraded. It's actually been a real problem in terms of other types of therpuetics when scientists would ideally like components to last longer in the body.

What you are are saying is biologically impossible.

Your "biodistribution studies" do not provide evidence of this - and I'm doubting what are suggesting actually exists. I've seen the fake claims which are rendered not existent when you actually read the papers they have come from.

@hamstersarse

I have posted before about how vaccination & coronavirus infection can disrupt the menstrual cycle and cause these side effects, and relevant studies, data, and reserach grants awarded to look it into this, including mentioning it on the current thread.

So on the same page you claim:

• There is no mechanism for this to happen / no way menstruation could be impacted years later (in context of children)

AND

• Concede that menstruation has been impacted by the vaccines

Now that's baffling

It is impossible to debate with you when are so confused by this. It isn't difficult.

An immune response can cause disruption to menstrual cycle - this is established. This could be due to an infection or vaccine, will occur in the short term and is temporary.

You cannot suddenly have a disrupted menstrual cycle due to a bout of flu you had two years, or a vaccine you recieved a long time ago. Understand?

This is why I stated to a previous poster It is not possible that vaccinating a child will have have a future effect on menstruration years later.

Ahhhh right, so you do know why menstrual cycles are being disrupted.

Let's halt all those studies investigating it, @leafyygreens has the answer

Did you tell them yet? It's just an immune response

Haven’t rtft and I haven’t got a dc in this age range and don’t know what I’d do

But I am interested in why JCVI have said yes when they didn’t for older - are they reviewing o/s info and see risk as lower?

Risk from vaccination that is

@hamstersarse

Ahhhh right, so you do know why menstrual cycles are being disrupted.

Let's halt all those studies investigating it, @leafyygreens has the answer

Did you tell them yet? It's just an immune response

Why on earth would I link relevant research, cohorts, studies, grants that have been approved to look into this if I thought no more research was necessary?

Nice try at deflection @hamstersarse. I'm glad you understand the difference now between short term and long term emerging though.

@MarshaBradyo

Haven’t rtft and I haven’t got a dc in this age range and don’t know what I’d do

But I am interested in why JCVI have said yes when they didn’t for older - are they reviewing o/s info and see risk as lower?

I believe certain members leaving changed the overall opinion of the JCVI @MarshaBradyo, but I agree it does look really strange.

I'm interested in reading their minutes whenever they're released.

@hamstersarse

You have linked a letter, with no backing in robust evidence, regarding a component of the Astrazeneca vaccine which is not being offered to children or teens.

So completely irrelevant to any of the points I have made, and the current thread.

@hamstersarse

Claiming that there is "no benefit to a child or to society" of vaccination is ridiculous and again is just revealing your bias.

I suggest you read the rationale from the many countries who have offered it to this age group to better understand the current body of evidence that makes up the benefit/risk profile for this demographic.

Yes it is finely balanced, yes there are other factors to consider regarding if it justified on a population level, but your repeated claims that the vaccines are unsafe are based in nonsense.

You make all the same false claims, on the same threads regarding vaccination of the general population, of pregnant women, of young adults, teens, and now children, as the vaccination programme has been widened.

@MarshaBradyo

Haven’t rtft and I haven’t got a dc in this age range and don’t know what I’d do

But I am interested in why JCVI have said yes when they didn’t for older - are they reviewing o/s info and see risk as lower?

I'm gald our kids are all 12+ as it was an easy decision as covid rates were high in our area and in their school/college plus they didn't want to lose yet more teaching time.

But now - rates are low and while in Wales we're keeping isolation a bit longer than in England - it does seem it will go.

I think a Y6 heading to bigger secondary next year then yes might be worth doing as number of people to mix with daily massively increases - and possible reception class next year as they turn 5 and any child or family with underlying conditions - beyond that I'm not sure I'd be doing it and I'm triple jabbed and DC are double jabbed so hardly anti vaccination.

But yes why now and what's the reasoning.

@leafyygreens

Still on your hunt to have things deleted that you think people need to be protected from because they are not all as 'clever as you and won't understand and might make a 'silly decision'

There was no misinformation there @mumsnetHQ
I presume you deleted me for expressing an opinion about vaccinations. I forgot opinions aren't allowed when it comes to vaccinations, sorry. I don't claim to be a scientist in a relevant area, so why anyone would listen to me is beyond comprehension. It's an opinion.

[quote leafyygreens]@hamstersarse

Claiming that there is "no benefit to a child or to society" of vaccination is ridiculous and again is just revealing your bias.

I suggest you read the rationale from the many countries who have offered it to this age group to better understand the current body of evidence that makes up the benefit/risk profile for this demographic.

Yes it is finely balanced, yes there are other factors to consider regarding if it justified on a population level, but your repeated claims that the vaccines are unsafe are based in nonsense.

You make all the same false claims, on the same threads regarding vaccination of the general population, of pregnant women, of young adults, teens, and now children, as the vaccination programme has been widened.[/quote]
Just so I am clear on your position, here is what I read:

• You have no bias
• The benefit to society is limited, if any
• The vaccine is safe for this age group and definitely will not impact menstruation, or have any long term effects.

That seems to be your position?

If so, what is your definition of 'safe'? What would count as acceptable collateral damage?

@MarshaBradyo

Haven’t rtft and I haven’t got a dc in this age range and don’t know what I’d do

But I am interested in why JCVI have said yes when they didn’t for older - are they reviewing o/s info and see risk as lower?

The messaging and media take on the JCVI’s position has been really confusing (as have the JCVI’s statements too tbh!).

However it’s worth remembering that JCVI did say yes for older kids - whatever the confusion around the first dose, it was the JCVI who authorized the 2nd dose for the 12-15 year old group. That decision was “guided by the JCVI”.

Also important is this, from the JCVI’s own report on vaccinating the 5-11s:

“Serious adverse events following vaccination are extremely rare in this age group. In the United States, less than 2 cases of vaccine-related myocarditis have been reported per million doses.”

“The available data indicate that the clinical manifestations of myocarditis following vaccination are typically self-limiting and resolve within a short time. The medium to long-term (months to years) prognosis remains less certain.”

[quote hamstersarse]@leafyygreens

Still on your hunt to have things deleted that you think people need to be protected from because they are not all as 'clever as you and won't understand and might make a 'silly decision'

There was no misinformation there @mumsnetHQ
I presume you deleted me for expressing an opinion about vaccinations. I forgot opinions aren't allowed when it comes to vaccinations, sorry. I don't claim to be a scientist in a relevant area, so why anyone would listen to me is beyond comprehension. It's an opinion.[/quote]
People express opinions all the time on MN regarding vaccination.

There's a fairly highly threshold for actual deletion of a post/thread due to health misinformation - i.e. saying things which have no basis in evidence, which is presumably why yours was deleted.

England to offer Covid jab to five to 11-year-olds

England, Scotland and Wales are saying they are offering it now.