5 - 11 year olds to be allowed vaccine in wales

[RedToothBrush]

Adrian Masters @adrianmasters84
1/3 The health minister has confirmed that children aged between 5 and 11 year olds here in Wales will be offered covid vaccinations.

2/3 Eluned Morgan told Senedd Members: “Whilst yet to be published officially by the JCVI, I have received JCVI advice regarding the vaccination of all 5-11 year olds and I have agreed it and we are working with health boards on implementing the offer.”

3/3 There’s been a delay to the official announcement, reportedly because of disagreements between the UK Government and the JCVI. Although it’s thought to have made its decision more than a week ago, the recommendation is not expected to be announced until the 21st February.

I'm in England so I don't know which why the government will go for England on this yet, but it looks likely that all 5 to 11 year olds will be offered the vaccine on a not urgent basis.

I'm not entirely sure how i feel about this nor what i will do.

Its not an issue with travel to most places (there are places its now an issue though) and there are potential implications for travel insurance (you may not be covered for covid related healthcare if you have been offered the vaccine).

I don't know if having it purely for travel purposes in this age group is a good thing or not.

DS is 7. He has had covid.

Genuinely don't know what we will do.

There is always the prospect of a new variant and whether being vaxxed is better for children.

In terms of disruption to school, i think the horse has well and truly bolted on that one.

I don't think im alone in thinking like this and will struggle to know what to do.

@BewareTheLibrarians
Most of your studies do not include that age group as a focus of the study so not evidence? Therefore you do not add anything here.
The final one in your second post mostly shows minimal potential problems with one severe problem that also more credibly arises from the vaccine. It’s also not a peer reviewed article so has limited value. Luckily I’m a Professor so can actually review evidence in a neutral way without relying on potentially contaminated so called evidence.

Gosh, that's lucky.

@BewareTheLibrarians
You can have no idea re the longer term effects. We can argue re the short term effects v actual Covid but you cannot argue in any way credibly that you or anyone knows longer term effects. There is no data/ evidence. That is a fact.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate
Yes, it is. There is so much misinformation. Why would I not feel lucky to be able to understand the actual evidence rather than propaganda?

@Scottishflower65 Couple of faults there. Myocarditis (I assume that’s the one you’re obliquely referring to?) has been shown to occur more often after covid infection than vaccination.

Also minimising neurological, breathing and immune system problems in children as “minimal” (what evidence do you have to show that?) nicely proves that you only care to support one side of the argument - potential vaccine side effects.

The effects of post covid complications in children are not “minimal” or only “potential”. I cannot take anyone seriously who is holding that bias but claiming to speak as a professor.

You either care about children’s health or you don’t. It’s odd to pick and choose and ignore information from “the other side” because it doesn’t agree with your ideology. How does that help children?

@BewareTheLibrarians
Which studies show the opposite? ‘Myocarditis (I assume that’s the one you’re obliquely referring to?) has been shown to occur more often after covid infection than vaccination’ in that age group??!
Show me a credible study of actual that age group who suffer more problems post covid than not? Compared to vaccinated group?
In any case, we can argue all day long re short term effects but no-one in the world had any idea re long term effects? Or can you see the future?
Re crap argument re you either care about children's health or you don’t?
I deeply care - as I can see you do also. Just because we disagree doesn’t mean either doesn’t care and disingenuous to say that? Throw away comment to deflect argument. You can deeply care but disagree on implication. That should be obvious to someone who is evidence based.

More info specifically re children.
Now of course these complications are rare, but suppressing awareness of them is not ok. You don’t help parents make a balanced decision by denying/minimising potentially useful information.

It would be great to reach a point where people can agree that post vaccine injuries are rare, but important to listen to and study, and post covid complications are rare, but important to listen to and study. This is not a competition, it’s children’s health. That should always be the focus.

The Myocarditis Foundation states that myocarditis in children occurs more after covid infection than after covid vaccine
www.myocarditisfoundation.org/covid-19-myocarditis-in-children/

University of Liverpool - New UK study reveals extent of brain complications in children hospitalised with COVID-19
news.liverpool.ac.uk/2021/07/14/new-uk-study-reveals-extent-of-covid-19-brain-complications-in-children/amp/

Multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children and adolescents

www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20210526/Study-shows-how-rare-but-serious-post-COVID-19-complication-develops-in-children-adolescents.aspx

More on Paediatric inflammatory multisystem syndrome (same as above) from Great Ormond Street Hospital
www.gosh.nhs.uk/conditions-and-treatments/conditions-we-treat/paediatric-inflammatory-multisystem-syndrome-pims/

I'm in Mexico and our health minister, who is also a top immunologist, does not think it is safe to vaccinate healthy children.

We will vaxx ours.

One if my children has had covid twice in 2 months the disruption to the school is massive, and each time both the staff and children are at risk of long term effects.

Also in Wales and won’t be having my DC vaxxed. The eldest had her first but that was it. I honestly no longer see the point.

My dd is 8 and immunosuppressed. She had covid at Christmas and whilst not critically ill she was far more poorly and for far longer than I was.

I had a lengthy conversation with her consultant and we have decided she will be vaccinated.

I’m pro vaccination - I got all three of mine as soon as I could and my DC have had all their non covid vaccinations plus extra ones we’ve paid for but I am uncertain about the covid vaccination for them. They’ve both had covid recently (and were poorly for no more than a few hours). The reasons in the BBC article on why they’ve decided to offer it don’t really offer clear reasoning to me. Two or three months ago I’d have jumped at the chance but now I’m really not so sure. The gap between having covid and vaccination has been increased in older children recently so they probably wouldn’t be able to have it for a few months anyway.

I don't understand this so maybe someone could help me. Is this a JCVI decision? If it is, wouldn't it be the same advice to all 4 nations? Or is it advice from the Welsh CMO? Or is it just the Welsh govt that have made this decision? It's very confusing as to who is advising what.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-60394709

I'm in England. Won't be vaccinating my DS should it become available.

@SushiGo

We will vaxx ours.

One if my children has had covid twice in 2 months the disruption to the school is massive, and each time both the staff and children are at risk of long term effects.

Fair enough. Everyone should have the ability to choose it's important to have the choice to take it up or not. But i don't understand the disruption argument in some ways. Disruption is mainly due to having to isolate. When that's done away with kids will only be staying away if they're actually ill rather than at home because Government say they have to be. It won't completely prevent them catching Covid if they are vaccinated. There seems to be a view that it does. It will make a degree of difference obviously but not prevent it.

@Louisianagumbo

I don't understand this so maybe someone could help me. Is this a JCVI decision? If it is, wouldn't it be the same advice to all 4 nations? Or is it advice from the Welsh CMO? Or is it just the Welsh govt that have made this decision? It's very confusing as to who is advising what.

JCVI makes recommendations to governments. Usually the governments accept them more or less immediately.

The Westminster government is playing silly buggers (and I imagine there’s a barney going on with the Treasury) and have told JCVI to hold off on publishing their advice.

Wales, who have also received the advice, have clearly decided they’re not particularly interested in being pawns in a Westminster psychodrama or PR strategy (delete as appropriate). So they’ve decided based on the advice they’ve received but is not yet published.

[quote Scottishflower65]@BewareTheLibrarians
You can have no idea re the longer term effects. We can argue re the short term effects v actual Covid but you cannot argue in any way credibly that you or anyone knows longer term effects. There is no data/ evidence. That is a fact.[/quote]
That’s rather the point, as I said upthread. We don’t have long term data on either.

What we do have is long term - very long term - data on how vaccines work, and the longest it takes for side effects to be seen. With any vaccine, because of the way vaccines interact with the body. People get confused and think they’re like drugs, that can accumulate and hang around in the body. But they don’t work that way.

And that period is measured in weeks.

We also know that, based on the data we have, Covid can create long term effects on the human body, even in apparently mild cases. The long term impact on the immune system (eg the suggestion that it may have a ‘measles moment’ impact) is also under investigation.

So we’re balancing uncertainties here. However there are pointers to the likelihood of those uncertainties manifesting, which should help to inform people’s decisions about vaccination.

Anyone shrieking at you ‘we don’t know the long term effects of the vaccines’ without also saying ‘and we also don’t know the long term effects of Covid, and one is more likely to have long term effects than the other’ either doesn’t know very much or has an agenda.

Kids don't need vaccinated.

From this decision, it’s clear the JCVI will be advising getting kids vaccinated. Boris is doing his usual bullshit.

I’ll be getting mine vaccinated. I want to go on holiday 😂 we’ve got trips to Spain, Greece & NYC booked this year, I really want to get back to showing my kids the world! Appreciate I am very fortunate to be in a position to do so.

@leafyygreens - give me cited scientific papers / evidence to refute anything I say rather than a rude and ignorant “misinformation” message which just shows you have not engaged with the actual evidence? I despair of people like you.

You keep referring to it as a "vaccine" and stating that isn't one - it's not exactly suggesting that you are making these statements from an evidence based backing. I don't think I need to cite papers to explain what a vaccine is, and why the coronavirus vaccines are classified as such.

You are free to make whatever decision you want regarding vaccination, but I don't understand the determination to deny this choice to others. Crying out that you're begging people to not vaccinate their "healthy children", when there is robust evidence to demonstrate a favourable benefit/risk profile is ridiculous.

Mine are vaccinated. The local children at school have been miserable since term began. Omicron has not been kind to them. And there's nothing to say they won't get it again. The disruption to their learning has been huge as there are so many off at any time and staffing shortages are affecting the quality of teaching provided.

The vaccine is researched properly and thankfully safe. It was a non event (slightly sore arm side).

[quote Scottishflower65]@BewareTheLibrarians
Most of your studies do not include that age group as a focus of the study so not evidence? Therefore you do not add anything here.
The final one in your second post mostly shows minimal potential problems with one severe problem that also more credibly arises from the vaccine. It’s also not a peer reviewed article so has limited value. Luckily I’m a Professor so can actually review evidence in a neutral way without relying on potentially contaminated so called evidence.[/quote]
Luckily I’m a Professor

A professor of what? Those in epidemiology & immunology understand why long term emerging side effects of a vaccine are biologically implausible.

They also don't refer to it as a "vaccine"

I am in England with a clinically vulnerable 11 year old who has not yet been invited for a vax although they are supposed to be 'compiling lists of vulnerable children'. I am now thinking of seeing if we can make a trip to Wales in the half term and access it there.

(I know, probably prohibited in some way but the vaccine rollout for vulnerable kids has been fucking disgraceful here).