Annoyed that masks can be a way that people are judged

[Twattergy]

I went to a hairdresser today. All staff wearing masks. I asked on entry ' do you require me to wear a mask?' and receptionist said 'no we can't force you to, it's up to you'. So I didn't put one on. I had one with me, but now it isn't mandatory, I made my choice based on fact that I have been tripled jabbed and recovered from covid 2 weeks ago. I kept having the urge to tell the staff 'I have been tripled jabbed and recently recovered from covid which is the main reason I'm not wearing a mask'..but I thought why should I have to justify this? Any of the masked people in there could be unvaccinated, or even knowingly have symptoms of Covid, but because they are wearing a mask it is assumed they are doing 'the right thing'. And me in no mask, I think many people would assume I'm being anti social, when in fact I have been highly responsible with vaccination. I'm annoyed at the huge potential for judgements around mask wearing now that it isn't mandatory. (I would wear a mask where is is mandatory eg London transport or health care settings BTW I'm not a radical anti masker). Ifnyou were sat next to me in the hairdresser would you judge me? Would you want me to tell you I was fully vaxxed and recently recovered?

I am far more worried about this burning inner stress most people on MN seem to display, constantly wanting to justify their actions and seek approval and starting almost every single post by a disclaimer.

@Twattergy

Really interesting to get this range of responses. I am concluding that some people would judge me negatively; some people wouldn't. So, cant win. Some go as far as assuming I'm unvaxxinated, or that anyone wearing a mask is more responsible in relation to covid than someone not wearing a mask. Which has no logic at all. People saying it is courteous or good for mental health to wear a mask have the strongest argument, I think that is a good point.

My advice, FWIW, would be to worry a lot less about whether anyone is judging you and a lot more about what you think is right.

Then you can do what you decide is right without all the angst.

When you have decided what is right for you, I do seriously hope that you can take on board the difference between 'do you require me to wear a mask' and 'would you like me to wear a mask'.

I think that’s disinformation

What?

plus a good dollop of mental health weaponisation

I'm loving how reasonable pointing out of problems caused by lockdown / restrictions is being called 'weaponisation' now. Looks like the minimising never stops, hmm?

@FinallyHere I did do what I thought was right, considering my covid status, and will continue to do so. It is all any of us can do. I paraphrased in my OP, indid notnuse the word 'required' what I actually said was 'is it masks in here?' whilst smiling and getting a mask from my pocket. She could have really easily said 'if you have one it'd be great if you could wear it' - and I happily would have.

[quote Twattergy]@carrieblue you are missing the point completely. How do I know that someone wearing a mask has done the most important thing to protect me and others - namely to be fully vaccinated? I have done everything to protect them - I am fully vaccinated and also recently recovered from Covid. Putting a mask on now would make zero difference.[/quote]
Agree agree agree. I am the same. Triple jabbed and just had it.

I don't judge anyone about mask wearing, whether they choose to wear one or not.

One thing I can't stand though is the 'mask police'. Someone on my local FB group said they were going to 'actively challenge' anyone they saw in a shop without a mask on! 😳

@IaltagDhubh

Also, being triple jabbed didn’t stop you catching it, did it?

Probably stopped her going to hospital. Are you triple jabbed? Have you had it?

In the same way that wearing a mask doesn't 100% protect you from passing Covid onto someone else, vaccines don't confer 100% protection from catching Covid either. So YWBU.

I absolutely do judge people who aren't wearing a mask especially in a situation where catching Covid would be detrimental to a business or staff.

Usually the maskless are saying "I have assessed the risk to ME and am comfortable with that risk". The risk to someone else, be it medical, mental, economical, is usually not considered or is a factor in their decision. That's pretty shitty imo.

If you’re comfortable with your choice why are you posting about it?

@BonnesVacances

In the same way that wearing a mask doesn't 100% protect you from passing Covid onto someone else, vaccines don't confer 100% protection from catching Covid either. So YWBU.

I absolutely do judge people who aren't wearing a mask especially in a situation where catching Covid would be detrimental to a business or staff.

Usually the maskless are saying "I have assessed the risk to ME and am comfortable with that risk". The risk to someone else, be it medical, mental, economical, is usually not considered or is a factor in their decision. That's pretty shitty imo.

I do take it into account but if the mood is very relaxed and no one is wearing one, including staff, then I prefer it

[quote Twattergy]@FinallyHere I did do what I thought was right, considering my covid status, and will continue to do so. It is all any of us can do. I paraphrased in my OP, indid notnuse the word 'required' what I actually said was 'is it masks in here?' whilst smiling and getting a mask from my pocket. She could have really easily said 'if you have one it'd be great if you could wear it' - and I happily would have.[/quote]
But she did say that! - we can’t force you is exactly the same as ‘we’d love it if you wore one’.

You know this perfectly well.

@MrsSkylerWhite because I was interested to understand how others might judge me. I didn't post to ask if I made the right choice or not. I believe I did.

I think the masks issue is
So my work can't ask customers to wear them - we are going with a "we prefer it but obviously it's up to you"
Then the staff get covid (heavily customer facing, no windows to open) - the last lot meant 8 staff members were off sick
Customers then complain and are absolutely raging that we can't provide the service they want. Well we can't because there are no staff!
One department currently has one member of staff in, instead of the usual 4 and customers are fuming and shouting that nobody is answering the phone while poor one staff member is run off his feet

I think some people don't like to see others wearing masks because it reminds them that we are still in a pandemic. Minimising the situation is a coping mechanism. In their minds if there are no reminders, masks, lockdown, vaccine etc, then the virus does not exist or 'its only mild' 'just a cold' etc

@Flaxmeadow

I think some people don't like to see others wearing masks because it reminds them that we are still in a pandemic. Minimising the situation is a coping mechanism. In their minds if there are no reminders, masks, lockdown, vaccine etc, then the virus does not exist or 'its only mild' 'just a cold' etc

Really?

I can’t relate to that

No issue with others wearing them but I appreciate going to hairdresser and no pressure to wear one as no one is

[quote Emergency73]@TheKeatingFive

No - I think that’s disinformation, plus a good dollop of mental health weaponisation thrown in for good measure.[/quote]
Mask wearing does create problems for people, including those with certain anxiety issues and those relying on lip reading, so 'making people feel better' isn't in itself a good enough reason. With medical masks, there exists a way of reliably lowering your risk, so do that.

Is this the post your referring to? Where is the disinformation and where is the weaponisation of mental health? All I can see is a balanced and factual post.

@MrsSkylerWhite

If you’re comfortable with your choice why are you posting about it?

...well obviously in order to have a conversation about it, isn't that what forums like this are for, people swapping thoughts/views with other people?

Why care what people think?
You know you're not going to infect anyone. In a week's time when they're not infected,they're not going to still be thinking about the maskless woman in the hairdresser, even if they were in the first place.

It's kind of ironic if some of the posters here would judge me as selfish and inconsiderate for having the audacity to bare my face in society whereas I know I'm not a bad egg when I've volunteered in 4 different community organisations in the past week. You can't see that for judging worthiness though. Maybe I should pin some badges/ uniform/ hi-viz and DBS certificates to myself so everyone can know I'm nearly as worthy as a mask-wearer

As a lipreader, for me, the more bare faces , the better. I can understand why medically vulnerable people would favour wearing well-fitting, quality products though. I agree with the PP that it's more effective for the few to know they're giving themselves optimal protection than relying on the majority covering up their faces with any random product of dubious fit. Ultimately mask mandates make little difference when comparing the big picture of national trends.

I unfortunately had to go to Sainsbury's a couple of days ago (product not avaliable elsewhere) where they're still keeping 2020 alive with the segregated entrance to keep us safe and the regular tannoy announcements. Most people dutifully wore their masks being either upstanding citizens, or just following the general vibe/ behaviour set in the store. The irony is that the vast majority of those masks were not regulated effective products or well fitting. Most had huge gaps around the edges, so the actual efficacy is rather closer to nil than 10%. All it's doing is feeding the false concept of "safe".

My lifestyle is low-risk, I spend little time indoors with groups of people. I have had all jabs offered (not anti-vaxx cover-up ). I did happen to have Covid over Christmas when Omicron really took off locally. With recent infection soon after a booster and my lifestyle, my chances of having Covid this side of Easter become very low. I have no need to demonstrate how wonderful I am by covering up my airways, especially when it nearly always is accompanied by rapid over heating, stripping of clothes, constant fidgeting and pulling of the offending mask (thus rendering it utterly useless as any kind of viral filtration device) and then resorting to scratching my own face to bleeding. I still have marks on my face from my final attempt to cover my face in the supermarket in January 2021. I don't owe anyone that kind of performance mask mandates or not. I spent July 2020-2021 swerving the issue by avoiding places that were not essential (not great for the economy) but I'm done on restricting my life to pacify other people. If there's a choice of businesses avaliable, I'll go to the more relaxed one.

People who randomly judge peoples' morals by face coverings are going to have to get used to a substantial move towards normality over the next few months. The dropping of isolation and the fear of potentially losing earnings will be a big step for that.

[quote Twattergy]@rainrainraincamedowndowndown I understand that I will be judged by some. But isn't it weird that a fully jabbed and recovered from Covid person is assumed to have less respect for others than an unvaxxed person wearing a mask? I understand why that judgement would be made because masks are visible. But it is a flawed logic. I've not seen anyone who says they would judge me accept the flaw in the logic of that judgement. In a world where some people are vaccinated and others aren't, mask are not a true indicator of how caring or responsible a person is.[/quote]
I wouldn't judge you for not wearing a mask, although at my hairdressers I still do out of respect for their feelings and the feelings of their elderly and vulnerable clients.

However, I do judge you a little bit for your slightly superior and hypocritical judgement of unvaccinated people!

Here's a quote from an article that appeared in the BMJ yesterday...

“They’re recognising that vaccines aren’t preventing transmission, and you’ve got too many people having to isolate,” says Bauld. “Policymakers have decided that the game’s up on transmission, but that you need a different approach.”

I think it shows that while vaccines are doing a good job in preventing serious illness/death they're not really stopping transmission in the way everyone hoped. It therefore baffles me why people are still clinging on to the idea that they're somehow morally superior by having had the vaccine and are using this as a stick to beat unvaccinated people with. Maybe it's time for people to stop interfering in other people's business and start respecting their choices again? The world would probably be a much better place!

You wonder whether people would judge you?
Yes I would judge you.
Equally many people judge me for judging you! You cannot win.

My hairdresser is vulnerable and always wears a mask, as do I.
It seems a small thing to do when someone is providing you a close personal service.

@TheKeatingFive

I think that’s disinformation

What?

plus a good dollop of mental health weaponisation

I'm loving how reasonable pointing out of problems caused by lockdown / restrictions is being called 'weaponisation' now. Looks like the minimising never stops, hmm?

Arseholes gonna arsehole!

Haven't RTFT, & won't. The one in which a majority dismissed the pleas of bereaved posters to argue that a C+ child should be taken to the footie upset me for days. But I didn't reply to that, so here's my tuppence on this. The logic behind my response for both is similar. If you dismiss it as mere virtue-signalling etc., perhaps have the courage to ask yourself what you get from making that assumption...

1. "Putting a mask on now would make zero difference." How can people continually assert this, in all seriousness, in the face of the consensus judgement of thousands of scientists globally specialising in epidemiology etc. alone, & the consequent conclusions drawn by dozens of national governments, all with varied perspectives & motives? It actually makes me laugh each time I read it.

2. "How do I know that someone wearing a mask has done the most important thing to protect me and others - namely to be fully vaccinated". Self-evidently, you can't. In the light of this, the only reason I can see for even mentioning this is to imply that, because you can't have the reassurance of others having taken these particular steps to protect you & others, you feel justified in not taking an entirely different particular step to protect them. This would be playground logic.

3. "Performative". As you say yourself, you can't know others' medical circumstances or motivations. To leap to the assumption that their decision to wear a mask in this context is a kind of virtue-signalling is logically inconsistent at best. At worst, it's... well, to put it politely, an easy way out for you, in giving you a sense of having the moral high-ground in not wearing one - a kind of inverse virtue-signalling!

I'd interpret the available information rather differently in your situation.

1. My GCSE biology (tbh, if I had a medical doctorate or was in cancer research, this wouldn't change my mind on this) is simply not enough for me to dismiss a global scientific & political consensus (and that c- word's important here, addressing in 9 simple letters the popular, "but some scientists disagree" rebuttal).

2. There are a range of things we can do to protect each other. They all interact to maximise safety (see: Swiss-cheese model). Some are visible, some aren't (as if this were relevant). Quite simply, I hope that other people will do what they can within reason to protect me, and I choose to do everything I can within reason to protect them.

3. Lastly, & most importantly, I'd recognise that I can't possibly know why these people are wearing masks, but the most logical assumption by far is that some, at least, are worried about their own, &/or others', health, or are showing consideration for others who may this way. And probability dictates that there's a fair chance one or more will, indeed, be clinically extremely vulnerable or have regular direct contact with a CEV person. So, I'll wear a mask for an hour to help others be, & feel, safer.

When did it become necessary to explain things like scientific consensus, common sense & empathy? And when did it become morally shameful to do so (as people with my views are so often accused of virtue-signalling etc.) I know people who leave their homes only for essentials because Covid still presents such a risk to them (and, again, to pre-empt the inevitable facile responses, far more of a risk than flu or measles or whatever at this point). Most of them suffer in silence. What's happened to us, that we're so reluctant to make a small concession to our comfort for an hour that could gift them freedom & confidence after almost 2 years?

@Metacat

Haven't RTFT, & won't. The one in which a majority dismissed the pleas of bereaved posters to argue that a C+ child should be taken to the footie upset me for days. But I didn't reply to that, so here's my tuppence on this. The logic behind my response for both is similar. If you dismiss it as mere virtue-signalling etc., perhaps have the courage to ask yourself what you get from making that assumption...

1. "Putting a mask on now would make zero difference." How can people continually assert this, in all seriousness, in the face of the consensus judgement of thousands of scientists globally specialising in epidemiology etc. alone, & the consequent conclusions drawn by dozens of national governments, all with varied perspectives & motives? It actually makes me laugh each time I read it.

2. "How do I know that someone wearing a mask has done the most important thing to protect me and others - namely to be fully vaccinated". Self-evidently, you can't. In the light of this, the only reason I can see for even mentioning this is to imply that, because you can't have the reassurance of others having taken these particular steps to protect you & others, you feel justified in not taking an entirely different particular step to protect them. This would be playground logic.

3. "Performative". As you say yourself, you can't know others' medical circumstances or motivations. To leap to the assumption that their decision to wear a mask in this context is a kind of virtue-signalling is logically inconsistent at best. At worst, it's... well, to put it politely, an easy way out for you, in giving you a sense of having the moral high-ground in not wearing one - a kind of inverse virtue-signalling!

I'd interpret the available information rather differently in your situation.

1. My GCSE biology (tbh, if I had a medical doctorate or was in cancer research, this wouldn't change my mind on this) is simply not enough for me to dismiss a global scientific & political consensus (and that c- word's important here, addressing in 9 simple letters the popular, "but some scientists disagree" rebuttal).

2. There are a range of things we can do to protect each other. They all interact to maximise safety (see: Swiss-cheese model). Some are visible, some aren't (as if this were relevant). Quite simply, I hope that other people will do what they can within reason to protect me, and I choose to do everything I can within reason to protect them.

3. Lastly, & most importantly, I'd recognise that I can't possibly know why these people are wearing masks, but the most logical assumption by far is that some, at least, are worried about their own, &/or others', health, or are showing consideration for others who may this way. And probability dictates that there's a fair chance one or more will, indeed, be clinically extremely vulnerable or have regular direct contact with a CEV person. So, I'll wear a mask for an hour to help others be, & feel, safer.

When did it become necessary to explain things like scientific consensus, common sense & empathy? And when did it become morally shameful to do so (as people with my views are so often accused of virtue-signalling etc.) I know people who leave their homes only for essentials because Covid still presents such a risk to them (and, again, to pre-empt the inevitable facile responses, far more of a risk than flu or measles or whatever at this point). Most of them suffer in silence. What's happened to us, that we're so reluctant to make a small concession to our comfort for an hour that could gift them freedom & confidence after almost 2 years?

Haven't RTFT and won't yet posts a long response to it? OK. That sounds reasoned and sensible.

Tbf the scientific consensus re masks is based on evidence from pre-omicron strains. We do have some good quality evidence of the usefulness of masks with less transmissible strains, but that isn't there with Omicron.

Now I would still have worn a mask in that situation anyway, I think it's the fair thing to do in that situation when you're asked by the person who will be working on your body. But it would've been out of consideration rather than anything else.