Annoyed that masks can be a way that people are judged

[Twattergy]

I went to a hairdresser today. All staff wearing masks. I asked on entry ' do you require me to wear a mask?' and receptionist said 'no we can't force you to, it's up to you'. So I didn't put one on. I had one with me, but now it isn't mandatory, I made my choice based on fact that I have been tripled jabbed and recovered from covid 2 weeks ago. I kept having the urge to tell the staff 'I have been tripled jabbed and recently recovered from covid which is the main reason I'm not wearing a mask'..but I thought why should I have to justify this? Any of the masked people in there could be unvaccinated, or even knowingly have symptoms of Covid, but because they are wearing a mask it is assumed they are doing 'the right thing'. And me in no mask, I think many people would assume I'm being anti social, when in fact I have been highly responsible with vaccination. I'm annoyed at the huge potential for judgements around mask wearing now that it isn't mandatory. (I would wear a mask where is is mandatory eg London transport or health care settings BTW I'm not a radical anti masker). Ifnyou were sat next to me in the hairdresser would you judge me? Would you want me to tell you I was fully vaxxed and recently recovered?

I won’t be wearing a mask again unless it is required in the setting. Roll on comments about how I’m selfish. Good for you OP.

The figures appeared to have dropped again today on coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ are there any experts around who can tell those of us who are interested what this means?

I wouldn't care.

@2X4B523P

The figures appeared to have dropped again today on coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ are there any experts around who can tell those of us who are interested what this means?

The figures are dropping because they're telling people to take lfts and then not including lft results in the official figures.

@2X4B523P, I'm not coming back again after this one, you'll be delighted to know . I've been reasoned, courteous and friendly, apologised when I've got things wrong, offered my best wishes... I honestly don't think it helps to deliberately misunderstand my arguments. For the last time, before signing off:

1. Most experts appear to agree masks can make a difference, and many people are still at risk of severe illness or worse, so if it makes little to no difference to someone to wear a mask, it seems considerate for them to do so.

2. Some people find wearing masks difficult, and I really sympathise with this. They shouldn't have to.

3. The figures are falling and this is great - no experts consulted to draw this conclusion...

4. ...But anyone who interprets this as decisive evidence of one thing or another is either unable or unwilling to accept the complexity of what we're experiencing.

5. I hope things continue to get better and will continue to trust in whatever consensus emerges when deciding whether or not I support eg. mask-wearing etc. as things progress.

6. Not putting a date or terms on this isn't evidence of my embracing the apocalypse, agitating for the end of democracy, or being a psychotic supervillain.

(Sorry).

7. I enjoy debate.

Once again, I wish you all the best.

PS I've learned a few things here (eg. quasi experiment, & that experts DON'T seem to agree re. masks in schools for younger kids to the degree I'd thought, given the potential issues - unexpectedly uncovered while reading about quasi experiments) & am taking them away; thanks to everyone who engaged in good faith.

Enjoy Spring - nearly there now.

The figures are dropping because they're telling people to take lfts and then not including lft results in the official figures.

The last ONS did show a big drop and this wouldn’t be due to testing changes

Absences in hospital trusts also fell markedly which wouldn’t be due to reporting differences

@Metacat

If your still reading these posts then please don’t feel that your perspective is unwanted. We have different opinions and they are important in any debate, if everyone had the same opinions then there would be no debate. Your and other posters input is focusing on what the experts say, which are valid and mine and others are focused on real world observations, which are also valid.

The graph posted by GoldenOmber this morning is a good real world observation of the figures when the mask mandate was removed last summer and England figures were much lower than the rest who kept the mandate. Testing masks in a laboratory doesn’t allow for the real world usage of them.

Sage modelling suggested 6k deaths a day by mid January without a lockdown over Christmas but in the real world thankfully this didn’t materialise. That was predictions of the experts and what actually happened were the real world observations.

&Sage modelling suggested 6k deaths a day by mid January without a lockdown over Christmas but in the real world thankfully this didn’t materialise*

Could the reason predicted numbers don't materialise be because we lock down?

Could the reason predicted numbers don't materialise be because we lock down?

Yes.

Oh and that (discredited by many virologists and epidemiologists) report from last week - that downplayed the benefits of a temporary lockdown. It's been widely criticised by experts for using poor methodology.

But anyway, moving on from lockdowns. Masks are a simple (and for the majority, easy) mitigation - and something that is the very opposite of a lockdown. It is a mitigation that helps to keep society open and the economy running - at the same time as reducing the physical and mental health risks to the more vulnerable.

I emphasise reduce because, like the experts including the WHO say, it is about an arsenal rather than one single tool. So, Vaccine Plus - and also Mask Plus.

Also the fact of Long Covid means that actually everybody is potentially vulnerable.

Here's just a few unfortunate Long Covid victims.

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/i-thought-covid-mild-nearly-22868940?

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/girl-11-using-feeding-tube-26083404

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/12/long-covid-wife-suicide-give-others-hope

www.camdennewjournal.co.uk/article/long-covid-help-me-get-my-life-back

Any small measure we can do to help reduce the tragic cases is not much to ask.

@Flaxmeadow

&Sage modelling suggested 6k deaths a day by mid January without a lockdown over Christmas but in the real world thankfully this didn’t materialise*

Could the reason predicted numbers don't materialise be because we lock down?

We didn’t lock down?

Japan has been very interesting throughout but other countries have used masks as they have?

Do other countries not do ventilation or are they alone in this

Do other factors impact - lower obesity, T cell from SARS, cultural differences

I would like to know more about why they’ve done well but I’d not choose to have lower vaccine rates, as they do, here as I think we need vaccines and boosters to do the heavy lifting and we’d have worse outcomes relying more on masks and ventilation

This intrigues me though. We have lower restrictions and mitigations and lower rates - why would that be

Whoops wrong thread not paying attention

Btw, that claim from some posters on here the other day - that masks aren't a common feature in Japan? I can't find my link re the Japanese doctor (who I referred to the other day). I'll find it hopefully at some point. But here's some useful info in the meantime (because I know you might dismiss as anecdotes the experiences pre pandemic of my half Japanese friend, and that of her family who live in Japan).

www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/long-view-100-years-and-counting-mask-wearing-japan

Cross posted with Marsha.

Re T cells. Several T cell specialists are researching what they believe to be an issue, of SARS-COV-2 possibly damaging or destroying T cells.

It's still in study stage, I believe, and so of course might be completely barking up the wrong tree.

@Flaxmeadow

&Sage modelling suggested 6k deaths a day by mid January without a lockdown over Christmas but in the real world thankfully this didn’t materialise*

Could the reason predicted numbers don't materialise be because we lock down?

🤣🤣🤣
You couldn't make this up
We. Didn't. Lock. Down.

@Tealightsandd

The Amazon show ‘James May, our man in Japan’ filmed in 2019 would suggest that face masks are NOT commonplace.

[quote 2X4B523P]@Tealightsandd

The Amazon show ‘James May, our man in Japan’ filmed in 2019 would suggest that face masks are NOT commonplace.[/quote]
A western (or any) TV show isn't necessarily going to be an accurate depiction of everyday life of any country.

And of course people in Japan don't wear masks all the time. But they do tend to when necessary. Like when sick - or during a pandemic.

A western (or any) TV show isn't necessarily going to be an accurate depiction of everyday life of any country.

Perhaps not but six hours of footage and hardly a mask in sight would point to them not being commonplace. Of the few seen all but one was outside, which would suggest worn due to a concern over pollution. The only person I saw inside with a mask was in a cat cafe, which might suggest she had allergies to cat dander.



And of course people in Japan don't wear masks all the time. But they do tend to when necessary. Like when sick - or during a pandemic.

But that is what you have suggested many times over, that people have worn masks in Japan routinely for years.

I am 6 days into Covid and can pinpoint when I got it and it was where there were quite a few people milling around inside with no mask. Having felt absolutely rubbish for the last week I absolutely will be wearing a mask now in situations like the one I was in

Yes people in Japan routinely wear masks when necessary.

I hope you feel better soon @SquareNotCircle

"my first instinct was to follow their lead. But that doesn't make sense and feels performative un my siutation."

Because you are only two weeks out, I agree there is a little practical point. But I'd rather have a cultural norm established of wearing them in the hairdresser. Because it's not that difficult a thing for most people. So I'd have worn one in your place.

@ADisgruntledPelican

The figures are dropping because they're telling people to take lfts and then not including lft results in the official figures

They are counting lateral flows. Scroll down to "Cases by test type and specimen date".

coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases?areaType=ltla&areaName=Braintree

@CarrieBlue

Isn’t it nice that the people in the hairdressers wanted to protect you despite you not wanting to protect them.

This

[quote 2X4B523P]@Tealightsandd

The Amazon show ‘James May, our man in Japan’ filmed in 2019 would suggest that face masks are NOT commonplace.[/quote]
I lived in Tokyo and Nagoya for 7 years. Masks are common and especially when people are sick with colds. Same in Korea. I noticed people are very considerate in this particular part of the world when it comes to these things. She should’ve worn a mask in the hairdressers out of respect.