Vaccine mandates

[wombleflump]

I am against COVID vaccine mandates ( not against vaccines esp for CV or elderly ) . I find it frustrating that in the press ( and sorry also on mumsnet) people who know nothing of even basic biology, with no medical or immunology training are always taking the moral high ground. People try to make you feel guilty. They are however not able to give a coherent scientific argument just spout the rhetoric of a few months back. No one seems to think that ignoring natural immunity is illogical. Is anyone really “ following the science”?

I mostly agree with you, but I think you are going to get a hard time on MN with this post.

This article is interesting. Even some unvaccinated people agree with vaccine mandates for certain category of people.

fortune.com/2022/01/28/omicron-covid-unvaccinated-poll-vax-mandates-ipsos/

[quote rainrainraincamedowndowndown]This article is interesting. Even some unvaccinated people agree with vaccine mandates for certain category of people.

fortune.com/2022/01/28/omicron-covid-unvaccinated-poll-vax-mandates-ipsos/[/quote]
fortune.com/worlds-greatest-leaders/2020/bill-gates/

Another article from Fortune magazine about how Bill Gates is one of the worlds greatest leaders. Getting the feeling it might be just a tad biased!

Find it slightly hard to believe there are many unvaccinated people who would agree with vaccine mandates. Would be somewhat hypocritical surely?

@wombleflump

I am against COVID vaccine mandates ( not against vaccines esp for CV or elderly ) . I find it frustrating that in the press ( and sorry also on mumsnet) people who know nothing of even basic biology, with no medical or immunology training are always taking the moral high ground. People try to make you feel guilty. They are however not able to give a coherent scientific argument just spout the rhetoric of a few months back. No one seems to think that ignoring natural immunity is illogical. Is anyone really “ following the science”?

Are you in the UK @wombleflump?

What specific mandates are you referring to?

No one seems to think that ignoring natural immunity is illogical.
What do you think of the wealth of evidence that demonstrates how vaccination reduces the likelihood of reinfection? I don't see anyone ignoring a history of previous infection.

FWIW I don't think vaccines should be mandatory, but your post seems a tad biased.

What is happening in Germany and Austria; Italy and Greece is horrific. In Germany there are reports of protesters being beaten

There should be a worldwide condemnation of this. Instead of silence

Follow the Canadian truckers on Twitter to cheer yourself up!

@Thievesoil

What is happening in Germany and Austria; Italy and Greece is horrific. In Germany there are reports of protesters being beaten

There should be a worldwide condemnation of this. Instead of silence

Follow the Canadian truckers on Twitter to cheer yourself up!

Link to that claim?

I've been following the German 2022 protests and haven't seen anything of the sort

For example
German riot police were attacked with bottles and fireworks as more than 35,000 people took part in protests against the government’s coronavirus restrictions and plans to introduce vaccine mandates.

There were attacks against police and journalists in the eastern states of Saxony, where 14 police were injured by protestors, and Saxony-Anhalt, where 40 people were arrested for throwing bottles and pyrotechnics at police in Magdeburg.

“One protestor tried to take a police officer’s revolver away from him and another protestor bit an officer,” a police spokesman in the town of Lichtenstein said.

www.independent.co.uk/tv/editors-picks/germany-protest-covid-omicron-v84d621db

I agree OP. I can't believe mandates are coming in here in the UK and much worse around the world and the moral, ethical conversations that should be had are not being had. Feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

@Givemepickles

I agree OP. I can't believe mandates are coming in here in the UK and much worse around the world and the moral, ethical conversations that should be had are not being had. Feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

What mandates are coming to the UK?

Actually some good news this evening, looks like the mandates for NHS and care staff in the UK are now not happening.

@Scianel

Actually some good news this evening, looks like the mandates for NHS and care staff in the UK are now not happening.

@Scianel

Do you have a link to that please

I don't think people are ignoring natural immunity, are they @wombleflump? The evidence suggests that even those who are benefiting from natural immunity would still be even better protected if they also had a vaccine.

@wombleflump

I am against COVID vaccine mandates ( not against vaccines esp for CV or elderly ) . I find it frustrating that in the press ( and sorry also on mumsnet) people who know nothing of even basic biology, with no medical or immunology training are always taking the moral high ground. People try to make you feel guilty. They are however not able to give a coherent scientific argument just spout the rhetoric of a few months back. No one seems to think that ignoring natural immunity is illogical. Is anyone really “ following the science”?

How about all the people who do know their stuff OP? The (many) medical and scientific experts worldwide - including the WHO.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/01/30/front-line-health-staff-no-longer-need-covid-vaccines/

@JugglingJanuary linky for you, just hit airplane mode if it firewalls you.
It's all over twitter as well.

Telegraph reporting NHS mandatory jab U turn.

@Scianel

Actually some good news this evening, looks like the mandates for NHS and care staff in the UK are now not happening.

Well not good news for vulnerable patients.

Good news maybe for the clinical negligence lawyers - who will likely see bereaved families seeking legal action if a hospital or other medical setting fails its duty of care (to take all reasonable precautions to protect the more vulnerable including vaccines).

I mean, it doesn't inspire confidence in the medical 'care' - if it's being provided by someone who doesn't believe in science and medicine.

I'm not convinced this can be true

Unvaccinated asking for mandates for certain groups? What did they do, poll 5 year olds?

@EmmaH2022

I'm not convinced this can be true

Unvaccinated asking for mandates for certain groups? What did they do, poll 5 year olds?

I was curious about this so read the article linked.

It includes questionnaire data from five countries, and this is the part about unvaccinated people supporting mandates.

And even more startling, the ranks of unvaccinated see some merit in selective vaccination mandates. For example, there is overwhelming support for requiring teachers and health care workers to get vaccinated across all those polled.

I saw that too leafy

But you know how disingenuous these articles can be

I just cannot imagine that people choosing not to be vaccinated would remove that choice from others. I can't face revisiting the article as it keeps crashing on my screen. I'd be interested to know how they couched the question, who they asked, when they asked them etc. At some points, people with two jabs instead of three have been considered unvaccinated.

@wombleflump what exactly worries you about the vaccine?
It's a vaccine there are potential side effects, but the majority of the side effects are also adverse outcomes of covid. For example Guillame-Barre Syndrome. Yes, people do get it from a vaccine, but it's twice as prevalent with covid and we haven't had the same incidence as the US has had with heart inflamation as we increased the time between doses.

I'm a HCP with a masters. (I'm also a volunteer vaccinator) and was recruited with a NHS as a vaccinator.

I really do not have an issue with mandating vaccines, especially for HCP as it removes the people who are unable to think critically, makes decent decisions and ultimately put their patients at risk no matter what treatment they're having.

@EmmaH2022

I saw that too leafy

But you know how disingenuous these articles can be

I just cannot imagine that people choosing not to be vaccinated would remove that choice from others. I can't face revisiting the article as it keeps crashing on my screen. I'd be interested to know how they couched the question, who they asked, when they asked them etc. At some points, people with two jabs instead of three have been considered unvaccinated.

Yes I am also suprised

The survey was conducted by the polling firm Ipsos in Italy, France, the United States, the United Kingdom, Germany, and Australia.

They have the graphic of unvaccinated people only which gives numbers, tried to copy the figure across, but I think you can only see on the article.

You could probably find this and further details on the questionnaire design on Ipsos though.

Voila @EmmaH2022

And it was N=6000

www.ipsos.com/en/covid-and-the-workplace-dec-2021

Here's the WHO on vaccines.

mobile.twitter.com/drtedros/status/1481716659710742534

The majority of people admitted to hospitals around the 🌍 are unvaccinated. Protecting those most at risk also helps to protect health systems and #healthworkers, which are again under increased strain due to Omicron. We must all do our part to protect them.

Well good news about the u-turn of the nhs vaccine mandate! I said this weeks ago that they would leave it til the last minute to coerce as many people as possible and then once they realised they'd lose loads of staff they'd stop it.
It makes no sense when vaccinated people can transmit as much as the vaccine-free. In a few weeks they will be letting covid positives work anyway when the need to isolate will be dropped. How could they ever then say a vax would be needed?!

Of course WHO are going to encourage mass vaccination, it is what they do. They could hardly say "meh, it doesn't matter" However there does seem to be a glaring caveat "those most at risk" so if someone doesn't have a particular risk factor then it becomes less clear.

Though according to WHO I am very much at risk due to being a woman over 35. (Never heard that before)

[quote underneaththeash]@wombleflump what exactly worries you about the vaccine?
It's a vaccine there are potential side effects, but the majority of the side effects are also adverse outcomes of covid. For example Guillame-Barre Syndrome. Yes, people do get it from a vaccine, but it's twice as prevalent with covid and we haven't had the same incidence as the US has had with heart inflamation as we increased the time between doses.

I'm a HCP with a masters. (I'm also a volunteer vaccinator) and was recruited with a NHS as a vaccinator.

I really do not have an issue with mandating vaccines, especially for HCP as it removes the people who are unable to think critically, makes decent decisions and ultimately put their patients at risk no matter what treatment they're having.[/quote]
Seriously? This is a awful statement just what I’m taking about. It’s your opinion ( the arguments and science are much more complex than this simplistic argument. Removes those who can’t think critically and make decent decisions ! Seriously no words!