Can someone explain to me New Zealand?

[idontknow54789]

Sorry for the ignorance/naivety here but can someone explain to me the reasonings behind such extreme lockdown measures in NZ? At the beginning of the pandemic they're approach was fully accepted but surely now with vaccines and omnicrom being a 'milder' form of covid they have to start setting sense? Is it about the health system? I understand there's a severe lack of ICU beds but is locking down so much really better for health? Can anyone explain it to me please?

I don't why somebody is complaining about Lorde supposedly performing at the prime minister's wedding - the PM has cancelled her wedding. And even if she hadn't, Lorde is a NZer and is probably living in NZ.

It might sound counter intuitive but omnicron escaping from MIQ now and a reasonable level of community spread before winter arrives is probably a good idea. Similar to U.K. freedom day in July. “If not now, when?”
It’s summer in NZ, there’s a high level of immunity right now (which wanes over time as we know) and imo it’s best to get some immunity from natural infection in the young during the summer before winter hits. It’s the strategy the U.K. followed last summer allowing all the festivals etc to go ahead to avoid high cases in our winter and it’s more or less worked if you compare cases in U.K. now compared to many European countries that did not follow this strategy.
U.K. had loads of cases obviously but spread them out better from July to now.
Also once omincron is in the community with high cases MIQ inevitably becomes more pointless and unnecessary and can then be ditched which will benefit NZ overseas that want to return and might encourage a few tourists.
It must be a total headache for the government to manage MIQ!
There are no good options really and high cases are inevitable whatever you do but surely summer time with high immunity is better than winter time with waning immunity imo.

High vaccine rates - achieved through the use of mandates i.e. if you CHOOSE not to get get vaccinated (and, importantly, you don’t have a valid exemption) then you don’t get to work in healthcare, teach, go to bars, the gym, hairdresser etc and mingle.

A PP says that no one has been granted an exemption, including her DS with severe allergies.

@BeardyButton

Try telling all the people who didn’t die of Covid in NZ that zero Covid is bad for health.... try telling all their loved ones. Try tell all those who ve avoided long Covid.

Personally I have nothing but admiration for a people who were capable of such public mindedness. Who actually have a crap for each other. And who didn’t ramble on about ‘getting back to normal’ while others suffered and died.

It's really easy to protect a country 2000 miles from the nearest land mass and with what — 4? — international airports and a tiny population. It's really stupid and patronising of Kiwis to look at Europe and tell us we should have been like them. We're connected to Europe and the rest of the world in a way that New Zealanders aren't. Covid was here and endemic before anyone had heard of it.

The idea that the public mindedness of New Zealanders is in some way superior to that of the rest of the world is rot. Family members in Wellington, Auckland and Nelson have all talked regularly about people breaching regulations and behaving anti-socially. My cousin in Auckland had videos of people who live near them holding parties when they were supposed to be socially isolating. Levels of DV are high in NZ and they've gone up during lockdowns:
www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/11/new-zealand-domestic-violence-services-to-get-200m-as-lockdown-takes-toll

The failure to consider how to get back to normal has been bothering lots of people there for the last year. One of my cousins runs a company that does a lot of work in the US. He normally goes to visit clients every four months but hasn't been able to meet with them for two years now. He's lost work and he's had to lay people off and he's drifted a long way from his support for Ardern's government. I don't think he's at all unusual.

Awful.

People seem to be quiet on the “look at how the female leaders have handled covid” crap now.

@milkyaqua

I find it odd people are so invested in their ideology of anti-lockdowns and/or anti-restrictions that they feel the need yet again to query, sneer at, mock, and suggest poor outcomes for a country like NZ - which has managed to have only 52 deaths from Covid in the entire pandemic.

^ This

NZ has taken a different approach based on their island status and existing strict border controls. This has allowed the resident population to continue life as normal as much as possible.

I don't live in NZ but I think fair play to them. No huge numbers of unnecessary dead. No overwhelmed health service. Elective and scheduled treatments going ahead as much as possible.

Yes it's pretty crap if you are outside the country or is you live in NZ and have family outside the country but not everyone is a winner in these situations and their low death rate is to be applauded not sneered at.

It might sound counter intuitive but omnicron escaping from MIQ now and a reasonable level of community spread before winter arrives is probably a good idea. Similar to U.K. freedom day in July. “If not now, when?”

Totally agree with this, but as evidenced on here in July, it's very hard for people to get their heads around it.

I'm in ROI and we delayed opening up over the summer, which is now universally acknowledged in our government to have been a mistake. Delaying opening until winter is always going to result in greater pressure on the health system.

Pluvia exactly

Also agree with summer / waning point

What an odd thread.

I'm in NZ and things really don't feel that strict at all.

I can't shake the feeling that many in the UK need the NZ response to be wrong because to admit otherwise is to also admit that more could have been done to save so many lives over the past two years.

Thanks Treeflower think I prefer that.

I agree with Marsha being able to read messages from people in NZ is very interesting. I don't wish to stick the boot in.

@Cactusandmarshmallows

What an odd thread.

I'm in NZ and things really don't feel that strict at all.

I can't shake the feeling that many in the UK need the NZ response to be wrong because to admit otherwise is to also admit that more could have been done to save so many lives over the past two years.

I don’t think it’s an odd thread

But no I don’t think it’s this, as border control and geography are highly relevant in why there was a different approach

@Thhhhheeeeelong @Frikonastick you have my heartfelt sympathy. My parents are in another country with severe restrictions although I have been able to get there. So my heart really goes out to you. It's too cruel for words.

Once upon a time, kiwis who went abroad were lauded. Now many people in country feel we are parasites and should not be complaining as it was our choice to leave.
There are also permanent residents in NZ who can't get their families in or leave and come back. Quite likely they are silent because there is a very strong undercurrent of racism in NZ surrounding immigration.
Speaking to the press and posting on social media about the plight of the border draws the most vile comments.
The Prime Minister avoids questions about the situation and media is state controlled.
It feels like a dictatorship.

@Cactusandmarshmallows

What an odd thread.

I'm in NZ and things really don't feel that strict at all.

I can't shake the feeling that many in the UK need the NZ response to be wrong because to admit otherwise is to also admit that more could have been done to save so many lives over the past two years.

Sadly, I think it's more an increasing realisation of just how badly Jacinda Ardern has handled things and a growing awareness of the devastating impact it is continuing to have on so many people trying desperately to return to NZ who feel they have been failed.

My family in Auckland were still waiting for their first jab when I'd had my second and they weren't happy about it.

Why, there was very little covid here so they were hardly in danger? And for what it's worth, I had my first jab long after my friends in the UK had theirs, but had my second before them.

@Frikonastick

The NZ government has made their choices based on how terribly stretched the existing infrastructure in NZ is.

It’s not about a team of 5 million, or being kind, or patriotism or pride or anything else.

I live in a small seaside town of 131 000 people. My local doctors office has 10 000 patients registered. If even 10% of that one practice in my small town was to require hospitalisation, that would take up the entire north island of NZ capacity.

If the death rate was to increase (for any reason, even a large disaster such an earthquake with high mortality) by less than 10% nationwide, we don’t have enough morgues.

Even if people don’t need intensive care, but require ambulances, NZ has no facility to manage that uptick. Ambulances here are not free, and rely on donations to run.

And aside from all that, we don’t have the people, the medical staff, to manage any sort of big medical event.

When White Island erupted and there were 50 patients (I think) that was enough to overwhelm the four closest hospitals.

The NZ government is literally doing what they are because any other direction lies disaster.

That they have done almost entirely nothing in these last 2 years to solve any of these issues is quite frankly, appalling. But I don’t see how they could have done anything differently to begin with.

This is a pretty insightful explanation. Thanks. We have a family in NZ who have missed major life events here in the UK because they aren't able to leave, likes lots of people, and we're desperate to see him. It's very hard for everyone but I can see the reluctance to fling the doors back open based on that.

What I don't understand is how the NZ economy is surviving. Surely a huge proportion of the economy is built on tourism and although I know domestic travel is allowed, I don't imagine that makes up the shortfall from international tourists. I often think of some of the small businesses we visited and wonder if they're still surviving.

But no I don’t think it’s this, as border control and geography are highly relevant in why there was a different approach

The other thing that's always overlooked is timing.

NZ was way behind other countries when it came to the seeding of cases in March 2020. At the point where lockdowns became globally accepted and NZ instigated one, they had far fewer cases than most other countries in the same position, making the initial phase much easier to deal with.

That's not to take away from anything, but the whole covid country Top Trumps type arguments are pretty pointless. Every country had a unique set of circumstances, so comparisons don't really help the debate.

@taxidermissy

Once upon a time, kiwis who went abroad were lauded. Now many people in country feel we are parasites and should not be complaining as it was our choice to leave. There are also permanent residents in NZ who can't get their families in or leave and come back. Quite likely they are silent because there is a very strong undercurrent of racism in NZ surrounding immigration. Speaking to the press and posting on social media about the plight of the border draws the most vile comments. The Prime Minister avoids questions about the situation and media is state controlled. It feels like a dictatorship.

Oooooh, the propaganda artists on here ain't gonna like what you wrote

I think it's an odd thread because it's full of people describing a situation in NZ that doesn't actually exist.

Today I went to 3 cafes, saw numerous friends, and worked in the office. It doesn't feel like lockdown at all. I've also got spaces in MIQ twice now - people talked about being "locked out" for two years, but I don't actually know anyone who's tried consistently and not yet found a spot. There were plenty of spaces going spare in the December rollout, and when I came back early in 2021 I had my pick of places.

I also don't know a single person in NZ who has had covid.

I'm happy with how things are here, and so are most of the people I talk to. The government is still leading in polling by some margin. Over the past while I'm seeing a real rise in anger from those opposed to the government, but the actually number of those opposed doesn't seem to have grown - it's louder not larger

Very few deaths compared to 153k in the uk or :

UK 2265 per million

NZ 10 per million

This ^

While I know they are vastly different land mass/pop density/demographics another comparison is raw data deaths by population. NZ has about the same pop as Yorkshire
NZ about 60
Yorks well over 12,000

@Flaxmeadow

Very few deaths compared to 153k in the uk or :

UK 2265 per million

NZ 10 per million

This ^

While I know they are vastly different land mass/pop density/demographics another comparison is raw data deaths by population. NZ has about the same pop as Yorkshire
NZ about 60
Yorks well over 12,000

Of course the outcome is different

Why wouldn’t it be given variables for each country

This thread is interesting in terms of reading how NZers feel about what is happening but always this comparison is brought up without thought to the reality of each country.

@Cactusandmarshmallows

I also don't know a single person in NZ who has had covid.

You just wait until borders reopen and NZ rejoins the real world.

Catcus maybe not in NZ but the story upthread where they are not allowed to go home is awful.

I think very few need NZ to be wrong to think the UK made a fuck load of mistakes.

What is NZ's cumulative excess deaths compared with UK? Not even in the same order of magnitude, perhaps? What is the aggregate economic costs from the UK's lockdowns compared with NZ's measures, even without adding furlough to the debt? And screwing up the UK economy so growth rates are higher now from that new lower level is not a measure of success? And the above isn't an argument for not locking down, just competently managing infection - I wonder if Cheltenham, Anfield, track and trace failures and rinse and repeating locking down too late then opening up too early with a seasoning of 'eat out to help out' might not have been optimal? Still, royally shafting primary care will make things right.