If you support wide reaching vaccine mandates...

[Gooseandamoose]

How do you feel about this scene?

twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1483971004841881601?s=20

Filmed in NYC, where noone over the age of 5 is permitted to be inside a museum, cinema or sit in at a restaurant without a vaccine certificate - no testing option.

I'm guessing you might say that they knew the rules and shouldn't have put themselves in the position, but isn't there something about a child being escorted from a museum by two officers for the crime of not having had a vaccine which allows a great deal of transmission to happen anyway (and even less impressive efficacy after the first few months), that gives you cause to think that some societies are going too far? In the UK government's own estimation, covid certification only very minimally affects transmission in venues. Is that minimal impact worth this sort of division?

No, needs to be the case here too. Plenty of chance to be vaccinated so no reason not to be other than stupidity now (bar certified medical reasons). We should be cacvinating 5-11 year olds too but as with every other step of this pandemic we leave it too late.

I genuinely can't believe what's happening in some places. I also genuinely can't believe there are large numbers of people that think this is in any way logical, for a vaccine that doesn't stop you catching or spreading an illness that is mild for the overwhelming majority. Never been so glad to live in England!

I'm not in favour of vaccine mandates, but I also despise people that use children to make a point. That's twisted.

Illogical and terrifying. For children the risk-benefit analysis does not stack up, as many doctors have repeatedly stated. I don’t know how people who support these mandates will defend themselves in future, when children grow up and ask questions.

@CarrieBlue

No, needs to be the case here too. Plenty of chance to be vaccinated so no reason not to be other than stupidity now (bar certified medical reasons). We should be cacvinating 5-11 year olds too but as with every other step of this pandemic we leave it too late.

Please do tell me exactly why we should be vaccinating 5-11 year olds? Is it of medical benefit to them or is it so they can protect adults?

Using your child like this to make a point is great parenting not.

I’m staggered anyone would support vax mandates.
This is covid cultism taken to extreme levels.

I think it’s terrifying.

What’s more terrifying is the people who would be all for it in all countries.

Completely nonsensical. The media have really done a number on the general public to make them think young healthy people need a covid vaccine. Madness!

I think it's horrid that knowing there are rules, trying to take children to make a point thus traumatizing children unnecessarily.
Why these people do this? Why can't they wait until the restriction are lifted, or pandemic is over?
It's like trying to go into the shops maskless where you need to wear a mask to cause trouble. Even worse involving children.

@rainrainraincamedowndowndown

I think it's horrid that knowing there are rules, trying to take children to make a point thus traumatizing children unnecessarily. Why these people do this? Why can't they wait until the restriction are lifted, or pandemic is over? It's like trying to go into the shops maskless where you need to wear a mask to cause trouble. Even worse involving children.

Perhaps the point has to be made though, for people to pay attention to the reality of what's happening there. It's totally reasonable for parents for 5-11 yearolds to take a cautious approach to the vaccine, especially if their children have already had covid. For the sake of the extremely marginal difference covid certification makes to transmission, their kids won't be able to go on the school trip to the museum, the kids pizza party with their friends or participate in extracurricular indoor sports - these aren't luxuries, they're mostly just parts of a normal childhood.

*parents of!

Stats below
Number of deaths where covid 19 was the only cause on the death certificate
1st Feb 2020 to 31st Dec 2021

From
Office national statistics
www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19deathsandautopsiesfeb2020todec2021

Vaccine mandates?

The local drug users are offering £200 to get your injections for you.

Unscrupulous doctors taking cash to forge that you have had them

Lots of vaccine fraud is happening.

Mandate it, I'll be good ✌🏻

Whether they're luxuries is irrelevant really, it's the unjustifiable division that's the issue.

Of course parents should be cautious about vaccinating children. But also can decide not to expose their children to this sort of things. If you want to make a point, do it yourselves. No need to involve children for you to make a point. Yes it's horrid to see the children treated like this. But my anger is to the parents, not the rules. If you belong to the society, you need to follow the rules, like it or not.

I've seen so many of these kind of videos, parents using children. One I remember clearly was mum trying to go into the shop without a mask or something, making a huge scene shouting and screaming, in front of her kids. Getting arrested in the end. That was truly horrible.

@rainrainraincamedowndowndown

Of course parents should be cautious about vaccinating children. But also can decide not to expose their children to this sort of things. If you want to make a point, do it yourselves. No need to involve children for you to make a point. Yes it's horrid to see the children treated like this. But my anger is to the parents, not the rules. If you belong to the society, you need to follow the rules, like it or not.

I understand your point about exposing their kid to the upset and chaos here, but it does make the ridiculous policy visible.

"if you belong to a society you follow the rules"

In general, sure, but we shouldn't unquestioningly accept harmful rules that don't make sense. Vaccine passports are primarily a tool of cooercion. How much will it help the covid situation to only allow vaccinated kids inside museums? Healthy kids are disallowed whilst covid positive kids with the right QR code could go inside. For such a small (if any) benefit, the social cost doesn't seem justified.

[quote magamumma]Stats below
Number of deaths where covid 19 was the only cause on the death certificate
1st Feb 2020 to 31st Dec 2021

From
Office national statistics
www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19deathsandautopsiesfeb2020todec2021[/quote]
You seem to be spamming this on multiple threads.

What do you think it proves?

Several points to consider

• the ONS considers obesity, high blood pressure and dozens of other commonly occuring conditions as "underlying", thus meaning they won't be included in these stats. That's a huge number of the population.
• we aimed to prevent deaths by putting mitigations in place you realise? Why aren't you quoting stats from NZ where deaths are far lower?
• death is not the only bad outcome from infection - complications from ICU admittance, COVID related health issues, and long term issues from even a mild infection are common.

we shouldn't unquestioningly accept harmful rules that don't make sense

Of course. But your way of questioning the rules is by breaking the rules and get your child to be exposed to traumatizing experience to appeal to the people's emotions, I do doubt your motive.

It’s a disgrace. What has the world come to! We arrest people for entering a museum without having had a certain medication/vaccine??
I have never been more thankful to live in England in my life 🙏

@AllisoninWunderland

It’s a disgrace. What has the world come to! We arrest people for entering a museum without having had a certain medication/vaccine?? I have never been more thankful to live in England in my life 🙏

Vaccines are not medications.

@AllisoninWunderland

It’s a disgrace. What has the world come to! We arrest people for entering a museum without having had a certain medication/vaccine?? I have never been more thankful to live in England in my life 🙏

It's a disgrace that the parents take their children knowing they are breaking the rules and end up in trouble. It's totally avoidable situation. If they are against the rules, this is not the way to make a point.

I think the parents in countries with crazy, discriminatory rules like this need to make a point and make it extremely strongly so they have my full support. Why should they stay quiet why their children are being treated in this way? Anyone who approves of children being banned from birthday parties, restaurants, playzones, cinemas etc, even though it's obvious it's going to do little to stop Covid spreading, has lost all sense of decency or proportion and deserves to be shown up for what they are.

Meh, I don't think it's right to use children to make a point, but if that's what anyone believe, each to their own, I suppose. And fyi, I never said people need to stay quiet, just don't agree with using children as a tool.