Attitude to masks needs to change...

[treeflowercat]

We adapted before back in the late Spring 2020, when it was decided that masks were beneficial after all, having initially been advised against it. The message at the time and since has been that masks protect others more than they protect you.

But now, the emphasis is on mask quality.... and it matters far less whether others around you have face covering but the quality of your own. For instance, it appears that you're far more protected if you have a FFP2 mask and others are maskless, than if you and everyone else has a cloth (or even surgical) face covering as per the link below:

www.goodhousekeeping.com/health/a38697308/best-face-masks-omicron-covid-variant/

(NB the absolute times need shortening for omicron but relatively the differences remain)

The notion that a room where everyone had face coverings on is "safe" doesn't really appear to hold, as evidenced by the rises in countries where mask mandates are strict (look at Spain!).

Equally, the idea that a room where only you have a mask on (if high quality) is "unsafe", at least compared to the fully masked alternative outlined above, doesn't hold either.

It seems that the advice now needs to change, as it did before, and that your protection is primarily based on the quality of your own mask.

A recognition of this would hopefully diffuse some of the conflicts and anxieties surrounding mask use...

I'm not writing this as someone who is anti-mask, and I started wearing one before the become mandatory, but unless we make this shift, they'll be a lot of vulnerable people who feel disproportionately unsafe, in the belief that their protection still lies more with the cloth face covering worn by people they interact with, than the quality of the mask they wear themselves.

@nevergoesaway

I get what you’re saying OP, some people only feel safe if they’re in a crowded room with everyone else wearing a face covering, even if it’s flimsy and not worn properly. We need to stop looking at what others are doing and take steps to minimise the chance of being infected ourselves by wearing an FFP2 or 3 mask which will actually help to stop us breathing in the virus.

I have to say, from the beginning the messaging to the public around masks has been absolutely dire!

I’m not in the UK (in South Australia) but only wear a thin cloth mask to comply with mandates and not contribute to extra waste with disposables.

I’ve been saying for ages that the next step here needs to be doing away with mask mandates and anyone who wants to feel safe can wear one of the N95 or similars masks. No more relying on everyone else to wear a mask for them. It’s summer here so I’m going places that need masks as little as possible. I will throw a personal mini party he say the mask mandates are lifted.

I’m jealous of you in England going back to ‘normal’ life again

I think I’ll stick to my washable, reusable cloth masks on the basis that the long term impact of Covid on the environment with the amount of plastic landfill it’s generated is a far greater concern than the number of minutes my mask is effective for.

Having worn a mask FFP2 for work (dentist) correctly, changing it regularly, not touching it and once covered in stuff from peoples mouths and noses I can concern that they DO NOT STOP AIRBORNE VIRUSES.
They do stop all the shit (blood,saliva and pus) from covering my face and going up my nose. They also help stop me wretching when a patient has particularly rancid halitosis.
Before Covid there have been plenty of studies done on the effectiveness of masks in the dental surgery. All came to the same conclusion, you need to wear a visor aswell to stop aerosol splatter and masks do not stop transfer of airborne viruses.
Well maybe for the first 30seconds. They are just a barrier for the gross stuff.
I used an FFP3 during 2020 but only when I was creating an aerosol. We went back to FFP2 when research showed that aerosols were not likely to spread the virus.
So as long as you have a large number of FFP2s that you change regularly, wear correctly and don’t reuse then you may reduce the risk of infection by a very small amount.
As for fabric masks 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I agree. They really need to put the focus of masks onto the ones that actually offer some protection to the wearer.

It has just been a false sense of security where people have felt that they were safe because others have their face covered.

Its important now especially, when there will be so many people panicking at the thought of others not wearing masks.

I used an FFP3 during 2020 but only when I was creating an aerosol. We went back to FFP2 when research showed that aerosols were not likely to spread the virus
I thought the current understanding is that aerosols do spread the virus?

Do you have a link to the research you mention at all?

@Angrymum22

I'm not sure about your point re aerosols as I thought there was evidence that Covid could indeed be aerosolised.

As for FFP2 mask effectiveness... If you're hovering inches away from someone's open mouth for an extended then they won't be good enough, but that's rather different to a typical encounter.

They also help stop me wretching when a patient has particularly rancid halitosis.

I have to say, I am so, so, so glad that people are prepared to work in such a tough (yet incredibly important) field as dentistry, but I honestly don't know how you do it! It must be a really hard job, even without covid.

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross

I think I’ll stick to my washable, reusable cloth masks on the basis that the long term impact of Covid on the environment with the amount of plastic landfill it’s generated is a far greater concern than the number of minutes my mask is effective for.

This. I'm sick of seeing disposable masks on the pavement and how many of those people who do dispose of them in a bin actually break the strings?

I'm also not paying a tenner for 5 disposable FFP2 masks from Boots!

That's an excellent point books about isolating.

That's always been my fear over catching it.

I had it March 2020 and was pretty unwell for a few months. I still don't fear the newer strains as much and am triple jabbed.

However as a LP to a disabled child the idea of being stuck isolating for 10 days scares me more than the virus itself. Because the effects of that will be greater.

royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rsif.2011.0537
www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-infection/article/face-masks-to-prevent-transmission-of-influenza-virus-a-systematic-/64D368496EBDE0AFCC6639CCC9D8BC05
A couple of the many articles available in google scholar.
Note that the only recommended effective mask is the N95 or FFP3 which have to be fit tested. Fit testing takes about 20mins. Wearing an N95 is hard work and I found it was very limiting to work in. I also had a ventilated hood which severely limited vision ( essential when working in peoples mouths.
I’ve had Covid twice and I’m triple vaccinated I now treat Covid as a small risk like any other common cold so back to wearing just a simple FFP2. We change them regularly, always after an aerosol procedure. Research over the pandemic has shown that FFP2 as sufficient but we know that viral sized particles probably pas straight through. We rely on vaccination now to protect us. Regular lfts pick up asymptomatic infection and we follow current isolation rules.

@itsgettingweird

That's an excellent point books about isolating.

That's always been my fear over catching it.

I had it March 2020 and was pretty unwell for a few months. I still don't fear the newer strains as much and am triple jabbed.

However as a LP to a disabled child the idea of being stuck isolating for 10 days scares me more than the virus itself. Because the effects of that will be greater.

Isolation is down to 5 days so as long as you have emergency rations ( tinned and dried food) for 5 days you can isolate. I think by the summer isolation will have gone.

Isolation is down to 5 days so as long as you have emergency rations ( tinned and dried food) for 5 days you can isolate
I think by the summer isolation will have gone

It’s not about the rations, it’s about keeping children with additional needs who often don’t understand the situation stuck inside all day. The rule changes help, but it’s only 5 days if you have a negative test on days 5 and 6 (I was the only one of our household that had a negative test on day 6, the rest were testing positive until day 10).
Honestly isolating with my 3 year old (under investigation for ASD) was hideous. He didn’t understand, and changes to his routine cause him immense distress.

the only recommended effective mask is the N95 or FFP3

N95 is FFP2. N99 is FFP3, approximately.

It's supposed to be part of mitigation measures like ventilation.
Ventilation usually means opp sides of room with a door or window open to create a draw.

I'm in Italy too, I'd say 90% of people are now using FFP2/3 outdoors, the Gov capped the price as far as I know to around €0.85 per mask. The cloth masks never really caught on that much, it was mainly the blue surgical ones and a scarf or snood is not allowed. With exemption almost impossible, the county is pretty much 100% compliant. I really don't think I've ever seen anyone without one when they are mandatory, I'd go as far to say it's become socially unacceptable to not have one, especially at the moment where it feels a bit like 2020 all over again.

@TheLazyBeagle

Isolation is down to 5 days so as long as you have emergency rations ( tinned and dried food) for 5 days you can isolate I think by the summer isolation will have gone

It’s not about the rations, it’s about keeping children with additional needs who often don’t understand the situation stuck inside all day. The rule changes help, but it’s only 5 days if you have a negative test on days 5 and 6 (I was the only one of our household that had a negative test on day 6, the rest were testing positive until day 10).
Honestly isolating with my 3 year old (under investigation for ASD) was hideous. He didn’t understand, and changes to his routine cause him immense distress.

Yes, it should be pretty obvious that food isn't your problem here! I do agree compulsory isolation probably won't be with us too much longer though.

The articles above don't show that masks are ineffective.

Also N95s are not hard work to wear.

@StarCat2020

The articles above don't show that masks are ineffective.

Also N95s are not hard work to wear.

Quite a lot of people find they are.

Also N95s are not hard work to wear.

Are they the ones that are supposed to be fitted tight to the face? If they are then they would be very hard word to wear for me.

Universalising one's own experience is stupid.

I'm going to be judging the situation in regards to masks from Thurs. Will wear them if requested but except I'll stop for shopping trips as I do struggle with them. I'm not convinced they are as effective as people might hope. In regards to covid, some people seem more immune than others and react more strongly than others. We just had an outbreak in my workplace. Everyone who caught it was double jabbed but not had booster yet. For a couple it was a bad Cold, a couple of others were really quite poorly- more flu level. And some of us, like myself, didn't catch it. I have never had covid even with high exposure and having had in the house Xmas 2020. Have had booster too. Just seems so variable. I've been checking daily as some of the small children at nursery have colds that could well be covid right now. It is a weird illness.

WeatherwaxOn

Regardless of what the gibbering amoral buffoon PM says, I shall continue to wear a mask until the science shows infections are minimal.“

Same in our family.
If the shops yesterday were anything to go by, 9 out of 10 seem to agree.

@MrsSkylerWhite

WeatherwaxOn

Regardless of what the gibbering amoral buffoon PM says, I shall continue to wear a mask until the science shows infections are minimal.“

Same in our family.
If the shops yesterday were anything to go by, 9 out of 10 seem to agree.

Notwithstanding my OP, I'm continuing to wear a mask in shops too, and don't intend to stop immediately when they're j no longer mandatory, mainly because I recognise that some people are fearful and I don't want ignore that, especially at a time of high infections, but this is why the narrative needs to change, as masks shouldn't be a permanent feature forever, and I think some people (perhaps understandably if you're vulnerable) would like that on the basis that Covid will never be gone entirely.

@MrsSkylerWhite

WeatherwaxOn

Regardless of what the gibbering amoral buffoon PM says, I shall continue to wear a mask until the science shows infections are minimal.“

Same in our family.
If the shops yesterday were anything to go by, 9 out of 10 seem to agree.

That’s because the guidance doesn’t change till Wednesday