CEV people, how are you feeling about today's announcement?

[SmashingBIouse]

No masks/self isolation to end in the near future etc

I fully understand that restrictions can't go on forever but I admit I'm a bit nervous. I'm considering pausing my immunosuppressant drugs for a while, until case numbers decrease (they're still over 2k per 100k here). There's a teacher in my household whose school currently has six teachers and countless students off with covid but no masks from tomorrow! Plus DH will have to go back to the office on crowded public transport.

I'll phone my consultant tomorrow, see what she says. I was advised to pause when Omicron cases were going through the roof here. I'm worried about what the lack of meds is doing to my body though (I have an autoimmune condition).

How's everyone else feeling?

@3cats4poniesandababy

What I meant was no way to mitigate during a lockdown - well apart from continuing to see people and but wear a mask and need to get out and about which is frown upon and then causes me more anxiety. Sorry if that came across poorly. I was trying to explain how these restrictions have severe health impacts on people.

CEV people aren’t immune to mental health problems too. In fact, concerns were raised after the initial lockdown about the disproportionately high rate of mental ill health in people in the CEV group.

@Bailey48

I find it utterly bizarre that some people don’t realise CEV as a population are disproportionately affected by mental health problems…

[quote Mickarooni]@Bailey48

I find it utterly bizarre that some people don’t realise CEV as a population are disproportionately affected by mental health problems…[/quote]
And so are others I had a breakdown to the point of suicidal I can't do it again I just can't

@Mickarooni I totally agree. It's very frustrating when people assume that being CEV means we somehow... don't have any other parts to our lives? Can't have any MH struggles? "CEV" just refers to one aspect of our physical health, ie vulnerability to Covid. It says nothing about the rest of our lives. Plenty of CEV people are struggling with their mental health on top of things like shielding, or facing poor/no immunity.

[quote Innocenta]**@Mickarooni* I totally agree. It's very frustrating when people assume that being CEV means we somehow... don't have any other parts to our lives? Can't have any MH struggles? "CEV" just refers to one aspect of our physical health, ie vulnerability to Covid. It says nothing about the rest of our lives. Plenty of CEV people are struggling with their mental health on top of* things like shielding, or facing poor/no immunity. [/quote]
Did I say that cev people don't suffer ? No I didn't

@Bailey48 I was making a general point; my post wasn't directed at you personally!

@Bailey48

You’ve come on a thread where CEV people are taking about their anxieties. A few have popped up on to say “oh but what about mental health” as if we don’t know. We do. It’s crap.

I plan on using my masks for the foreseeable. I believe the higher grade masks offer pretty decent protection even if others around you don’t have them on, at least for public transport. In work all day long I will be wary as I know the protection isn’t infinite in an enclosed area for a long period like a day of work. I guess I’ll have to just hope for the best as no choice really.

@user1471453601

Im cev, and even more nervous now. I've been hospitalised with a cold before so despite being triple jabbed, I'm very nervous.

I'm supposed to be going to the Strictly tour show in a couple of weeks and I will go (double masked and armed with hand sanstiser) because I know friend whose coming with me is so looking forward to it, and her mental health has suffered during lockdowns..

But I won't be able to relax if most of the audience is unmasked.

I understand your concern. The quality of mask is the key thing. This link is helpful I think and shows that good masks really does protect the wearer, and that a sea of people around you in face coverings isn't really worth much.

www.goodhousekeeping.com/health/a38697308/best-face-masks-omicron-covid-variant/

As you can see, a N95 (or FFP2 as it tends to be known in the U.K.) gives 2.5 hours protection even if others are maskless (these are averages of course - every situation will be different), whereas for two people who both wear cloths masks, it's only 27 minutes! Even for two people in surgical masks, it's just one hour.

The cloth masks most would be wearing (if a mask mandate was in place) may provide psychological comfort, but practically, the protection is relatively low.

If you want even more protection, you could invest in a FFP3 mask for the trip... that gives significantly more protection again.

I think we need to move away from the belief that face covering rule are really very effective. They may take the edge off infection rates, but no more. If you want to be protected, proper masks are needed... and they primarily protect the wearer.

FFP2 masks are billed as single use, but I see no reason why they can't be reused, especially if "quarantined" for a few days between uses.

I don’t understand the ‘can’t keep restrictions going forever’ argument. Nobody said we should? Why are people behaving as though there are only two choices to be made, either drop all restrictions this afternoon or continue them until the end of time?

Bailey48 the data shows suicides increased where you are during lockdown? In my country the stats actually recorded a drop in deaths due to suicide during 2020. Modelling had predicted an increase, which thankfully did not occur. Interested to hear how the stats differed in the UK.

Rickstein

"I think scrapping work from home and no masks is now correct, people can still wear their own though. Self isolation scrapping at the end of March is still some time away but we do need to get back to normal and have a plan to do so."

I agree.

[quote Innocenta]**@Mickarooni* I totally agree. It's very frustrating when people assume that being CEV means we somehow... don't have any other parts to our lives? Can't have any MH struggles? "CEV" just refers to one aspect of our physical health, ie vulnerability to Covid. It says nothing about the rest of our lives. Plenty of CEV people are struggling with their mental health on top of* things like shielding, or facing poor/no immunity. [/quote]
Yep exactly — in fact, my bipolar disorder will have been part of the calculation that led to my inclusion on the shielded patient list, when the list was expanded to include those who scored high on the QCovid screener. People with what's described as "severe mental illness" (definitions vary, but often for the sake of simplicity the definition will include certain diagnoses and certain medications) fare worse when it comes to Covid, and we've been badly impacted by the restrictions too — our healthcare, our social connections, our usual activities, our daily routines, all the things that help keep us well have been harder or impossible to access. It irks me when people act like CEV people have had their turn being the important ones, and now it's other people's turn to be prioritised, and justify it by citing their mental health, as if that naturally trumps CEV at this point. It doesn't. Mental health is important but not more important than everything else. As a CEV person with a serious mental health problem I've had to make compromises and balance outcomes on a personal level.

That must make it all the more upsetting and frustrating, @ClumpingBambooIsALie - I can definitely see where you're coming from. I think people often don't consider at all that some mental illnesses are proven to increase Covid risk, even though that's well established now. It's not a zero sum game where mental health is a problem that can be 'solved' by lifting restrictions.

@MissTrip82

I don’t understand the ‘can’t keep restrictions going forever’ argument. Nobody said we should? Why are people behaving as though there are only two choices to be made, either drop all restrictions this afternoon or continue them until the end of time?

Bailey48 the data shows suicides increased where you are during lockdown? In my country the stats actually recorded a drop in deaths due to suicide during 2020. Modelling had predicted an increase, which thankfully did not occur. Interested to hear how the stats differed in the UK.

Nobody has said we should in so many words, but the bar some seem to want to set is so high that in effect that's what they're calling for.

The question is what background level of Covid would be acceptable for all restrictions to be released, and how do
we get and stay there. Is it 10,000 cases per day, 5,000... 1,000?

@Innocenta

I know I should probably be nervous - that would be the more rational response! - but I can't help being pleased for everyone else getting back to normality.

(I already led a medically restricted life before the pandemic, so continuing to be very careful has less of an impact for me than for some CEV people.)

Rational or not, yours is an incredibly generous and empathic response Wishing you all the best.

@SmashingBIouse

What that means is even with the measures, anyone who has an extra reason for avoiding illness is going to have to take special action

This is the issue though - what special action can we take? People have to earn a living/have DC in school/need to use public transport etc.

I'm not suggesting for a moment that we need restrictions forevermore (seriously. No fucking way) but I'm a bit at sixes and sevens trying to figure out the best way to deal with it at the moment, with no restrictions soon and cases still at over 2k per 100k where I am.

@Franklin12 god no way do I want this to drag on! It's had such an effect on my mental health and that of others close to me. I just worry that for CEV people who live in areas where cases are astronomical, as I do, it's going to be really scary/difficult over the coming weeks. Hopefully cases will continue to plummet everywhere and we'll be over this jump soon but for now, not gonna lie, I'm shitting myself a bit worried.

It's what it always has been for high risk people. Avoid others who are ill. Wash your hands. Try and take exercise and eat well. Avoid large crowds and such as best you can, as much as you are willing to. Wear a mask if you like, especially in settings like indoor crowds.

Some people may choose to do none of these things. Lots of older people, especially, prefer just to live normally and take their chances.

There is no way to make high risk people not high risk. We can't level every playing field.

@Guineapigssweak

Instead of spending stupid money on the NHS Track and Trace app he should have ploughed that into the NHS instead. Funny how the NHS was underfunded then all of a sudden Boris finds Billions hanging around!!

Yep. Bor

Isn't a major problem with the lifting of restrictions not so much an objective assessment of the increase in risk, but the feeling of abandonment by society.

The risk is too high for comfort now for those who are CEV even with restrictions (even quite severe ones), and they can only realistically flatten the curve and spread the same risk over a longer period rather than do much to reduce risk in absolute terms.

When society is required to take measures to reduce the spread, at least it felt like society cares (even if some individuals don't).... When society moves on, there's a feeling of being left behind to manage alone - even if a cloth mask provided little protection, at least it indicated solidarity.

@treeflowercat

Isn't a major problem with the lifting of restrictions not so much an objective assessment of the increase in risk, but the feeling of abandonment by society.

The risk is too high for comfort now for those who are CEV even with restrictions (even quite severe ones), and they can only realistically flatten the curve and spread the same risk over a longer period rather than do much to reduce risk in absolute terms.

When society is required to take measures to reduce the spread, at least it felt like society cares (even if some individuals don't).... When society moves on, there's a feeling of being left behind to manage alone - even if a cloth mask provided little protection, at least it indicated solidarity.

I wonder though - hasn't this been largely caused by the way the government and media has tried to manipulate people by scaring them, and telling them that if they pass on covid to someone vulnerable they have essentially murdered them?

I have a friend, a teacher, who is now completely freaked out about the risk to vulnerable children, and her line is this feeling of abandonment. Which I'm sure is real, she's not pretending. But covid isn't even the biggest risk to kids in my area, the children's hospital has far more kids in the ICU with RSV, and even flu, as of a few days ago. RSV numbers are especially high now due to covid but that is a disease that kills something like 30 children a year in my country, more than 10 times the number killed by covid over the past two years.

And yet we don't have this demand that the public needs to put in place all these extra measures, and if we don't, we are abandoning them.

So, why not? What's the difference? It's something about the messaging related to covid.

@Ricksteinsfishwife

I think scrapping work from home and no masks is now correct, people can still wear their own though. Self isolation scrapping at the end of March is still some time away but we do need to get back to normal and have a plan to do so.

Oh do you, that's nice. How bloody difficult is it to just wear a (proper) mask? WFH if people are happy to, why not? A few cafes sell a few more sandwiches.. 💁🏻‍♀️ Yep just throw CEV under yet another fucking bus. Ok, we get it, our lives aren't worth Jack shit. I mean it's not like 200 (7 day average) people are dying from it still.

I agree that we need to move towards life where it's just another 'thing' like flu, but spring is plenty soon enough. Get numbers diwn, better weather to be outside/open doors/windows. NOT the fucking middle of winter!!

Not just to try to save BJ's sorry arse!!

So, why not? What's the difference? It's something about the messaging related to covid.

Absolutely, the messaging has been key throughout.

I’m so sorry for all CEV people, this must be incredibly stressful and worrying

I’m not CEV but even I think it’s too soon to drop the basic measures like masks- mid winter when omicron is still going strong seems a bizarre time. I’ve recently started doing more social things and had (apprehensively!) booked the ballet for my mum’s bday as was reassured by the fact it said the audience must wear masks. Looks like that’s no longer going to be the case! Still, for me I guess it’s a risk I’ll have to take if I want to do these kind of things, but it’s shit that it’s not really an option for everyone.

I appreciate and agree we need to head back towards some normality and I can see the benefits - I’m not one for draconian measures - but I can only imagine how frightening it must be for those with no protection from the vaccines or with CEV children etc.

I’m planning to keep wearing my mask where necessary - looks like work will want us back in the office which is fair enough I guess, but will continue to do my best to mitigate the spread.

to all those struggling.

I’m recently CEV (well knowingly anyway - blood cancer diagnosed in December and am now in chemo) and I’m pissed off!

To do this now, when we know that rates will have come down by Spring is illogical and irresponsible.
For me, I’d like to see a plan for the CEV, that’s rolled out, then the restrictions are lifted in conjunction with naturally dropping cases.

I’m been told I’ll be prioritised for anti virals if I catch it, but still haven’t been sent my priority PCR- I’ve chased 119 as instructed and they ‘are behind in the rollout and don’t know when more will be sent out’. They can’t even tell me if I’m on the list to be sent one, and none seems to know why I haven’t been sent a CEV letter or if I need one.
I’ve pulled my primary school children out of school to ride out the Covid peak which was the right move - several in DDs class have it including the teacher. I’d like to see restrictions remain in place until my DC are vaccinated - seems this is coming, but again I’m chasing information and surely this should be rolled out before restrictions are lifted not afterwards.

Dd was completely healthy until an unknown virus went to her brain, at the beginning of the pandemic. We are going backwards and forwards to discuss surgery appointments to try to stop all the seizures and medications. Two of her teachers are off with covid so it’s not looking good for covid numbers for her going in tomorrow for an exam. Anxiety goes up (increasing the likelihood of seizures) when no masks because we can’t afford healthwise to miss hospital appointments nor to miss school. We can’t predict how she will be if she catches covid either.

She’s fine wearing a mask but doesn’t like the 50(?) cannulas she’s had so far, 4 emergency ambulances, seizures (in the hundreds), lumbar punctures, EEGs, MRI scans, mid-lines curling up inside her, all the blood tests. But this is what she has to put up with after whatever virus it was.

She will still wear a mask and her peers will still tease her.

Al Johnson wouldn’t last 5 minutes with what she thinks of him.

@Dammitthisisshit

I’m recently CEV (well knowingly anyway - blood cancer diagnosed in December and am now in chemo) and I’m pissed off!

To do this now, when we know that rates will have come down by Spring is illogical and irresponsible.
For me, I’d like to see a plan for the CEV, that’s rolled out, then the restrictions are lifted in conjunction with naturally dropping cases.

I’m been told I’ll be prioritised for anti virals if I catch it, but still haven’t been sent my priority PCR- I’ve chased 119 as instructed and they ‘are behind in the rollout and don’t know when more will be sent out’. They can’t even tell me if I’m on the list to be sent one, and none seems to know why I haven’t been sent a CEV letter or if I need one.
I’ve pulled my primary school children out of school to ride out the Covid peak which was the right move - several in DDs class have it including the teacher. I’d like to see restrictions remain in place until my DC are vaccinated - seems this is coming, but again I’m chasing information and surely this should be rolled out before restrictions are lifted not afterwards.

Really sorry about your diagnosis.

With CEV that was mostly for identifying those who needed to shield. Shielding was killed off completely last year, so it seems unlikely anyone is maintaining that list anymore.

Instead they have an un-named list of approximately 500,000 people, who are severely immunocompromised. This list gets you a third primary dose of vaccine if you are/were on the list at or around the time of your first or second vaccine. If you only became immunocompromised two weeks or longer after your second vaccine then you don’t need the third, as your immune system will have responded as well as it can to the first two.

There’s also the priority PCR and special medicines list. It’s mostly the same as the third primary dose list I think, but I’m not completely sure about that. This list you’re definitely on and it’s the most important of the three. Though it sucks you don’t actually have the PCR yet.