Why are we still wearing masks?

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I’m not in the U.K.

Where I am, we still have to wear masks in the supermarket/petrol stations etc..we’ve never not had to,
The U.K. don’t, right?
Why are we still having to do this? I can’t see it ending, will be so very odd going shopping without masks

@TheKeatingFive

I'm in ROI where we have vaccine passports, a mask mandate and an 8pm curfew for all hospitality/entertainment venues.

And right now we have the highest (or very close) covid rates in the world.

So let's engage with reality a little here.

Yep. Ireland is the poster child for long lockdowns and harsh restrictions and all for what? One of the highest case rates in EU. Ireland has gotten it very wrong, it's like it wants to be seen as the best little lockdown country in Europe, and to distinguish itself from England.

Do you want 100s of often avoidable deaths a week, and many more long-term Long Covid disabled?

Not really engaging with the point that countries with mask mandates aren't faring any better, are you?

@TheKeatingFive

I'm in ROI where we have vaccine passports, a mask mandate and an 8pm curfew for all hospitality/entertainment venues.

And right now we have the highest (or very close) covid rates in the world.

So let's engage with reality a little here.

I don't know too much about the situation in ROI (possibly impacted by the open border with NI/UK?) but an excellent example of how to do it right is South Korea. Masks are not the only tool in their arsenal but they are one big (successful) part of it.

As an aside, of course English case numbers are officially going down. Nobody could get hold of a test for days! Meanwhile hospitals in London, and now maybe Manchester too, need help from the military, and young people like the one in the article I linked above are being left long-term disabled.

Mitigations don't stop us opening up the economy. On the contrary. They help us do so safely and with less disruption. Masks, vaccine passes, good ventilation. Could also be a chance to boost our manufacturing industries (mask and HEPA filter makers) if we had any nous.

Yep. Ireland is the poster child for long lockdowns and harsh restrictions and all for what? One of the highest case rates in EU.

Yup, our long and harsh lockdowns, glacial reopening and readiness to reimpose restrictions were totally, totally worth it.

Oh wait ...

@TheKeatingFive

Do you want 100s of often avoidable deaths a week, and many more long-term Long Covid disabled?

Not really engaging with the point that countries with mask mandates aren't faring any better, are you?

Because it's not true. As can be seen in East Asia (and yes, some don't have mandates.... because they don't need them, as people are civic minded enough to do the right thing voluntarily).

but an excellent example of how to do it right is South Korea.

Really running out of poster children aren't we? Difficult.

Anyway, SK's radically different approach to data privacy did help them institute a good T&T programme. But then the government are able to commandeer mobile phone/bank card data as well as cctv footage. That's helpful. Oh and publishing the geolocations of positive cases. Makes a difference.

Even at that, I think their cases were rising recently.

@TheKeatingFive

Yep. Ireland is the poster child for long lockdowns and harsh restrictions and all for what? One of the highest case rates in EU.

Yup, our long and harsh lockdowns, glacial reopening and readiness to reimpose restrictions were totally, totally worth it.

Oh wait ...

We need to stop being so western centric.

Look East.

As can be seen in East Asia

You're down to one example, that has been able to rely on tools that aren't even legal in the west. C'mon now, engage the brain.

Look East.

Like China?!?!

Even at that, I think their cases were rising recently.

From a very low figure. And they're taking swift proactive action. Their death rate compared to the UK... The difference is staggering. Economy's doing ok too.

Their death rate compared to the UK

You do realise that the U.K. death rate, in global comparisons is falling all the time.

What about France? They have much stricter mask rules than we do but have a much much higher case rate than us at the moment. I realise they aren’t a Far Eastern county so perhaps not the best comparison though.

@TheKeatingFive

Look East.

Like China?!?!

Erm, the East is not one homogenous region. Lots of different countries.

Still, who are we to take moral high ground over China? Some here cry horror at some restrictions to prevent infection, yet here there's widespread calm acceptance of letting the Other bodies pile up or become disabled.

Even before the pandemic, we had the United Nations condemn our poor treatment of the disabled. And then during the pandemic, the Othering of the vulnerable. Yeah people in glass houses...

Still, who are we to take moral high ground over China?

Well in their initial lockdown there was a story about a disabled teenage who died of starvation because his parents were hauled off to isolate and he was left to fend for himself.

So yeah, pretty happy to condemn that. You?!?

Masks work as part of an arsenal - a multi pronged approach. As the WHO says, Vaccine Plus - also Mask Plus.

Masks, vaccines, vaccine passes, good ventilation (including HEPA filters and corsi-rosenthal boxes).

In time, we'll have the rest of the world vaccinated (morally right but also lowers danger of vaccine resistant mutation), more knowledge about SARS-COV-2, and more supply of the new treatments.

Ireland, Scotland and Wales - mask mandates and tighter restrictions yet still with a very high case rate, higher than England even.

But but but... South Korea...

Have a few more straws to grasp @Tealightsandd

@TheKeatingFive

Still, who are we to take moral high ground over China?

Well in their initial lockdown there was a story about a disabled teenage who died of starvation because his parents were hauled off to isolate and he was left to fend for himself.

So yeah, pretty happy to condemn that. You?!?

Like I say, who are we to talk outrage over treatment of the disabled?

Condemned by the UN even before the pandemic.

Then during the pandemic we had doctors asking confused disabled children to agree to DNRs!

Just looked at the seven day average for France and it’s nearly 300k vs ours at nearly 120k. Similar population but they have over twice the land space.

@Lilifer

Ireland, Scotland and Wales - mask mandates and tighter restrictions yet still with a very high case rate, higher than England even.

But but but... South Korea...

Have a few more straws to grasp @Tealightsandd

No straws. Just not confined to a western centric attitude.

@2X4B523P

Just looked at the seven day average for France and it’s nearly 300k vs ours at nearly 120k. Similar population but they have over twice the land space.

Actually they have a larger population, although you're right about more land space.

But separately, our official cases 'fell' because nobody could get hold of any tests.

And again. We need to stop being so western centric.

Ah yes true UN, that wonderful peacekeeping organisation. Although there was that thing about over 100 of its peacekeepers running a child sex trafficking ring in Haiti ... yeah no I don't think I am gonna take morality lessons from such an organisation thanks.

I think masks will be scrapped fairly soon in England again - and I welcome that. Compliance is generally low is shops and on trains I've been noting recently and it is nice to see peoples faces again. Those that still want to can continue of course.

@Tealightsandd

Just looked and according to Worldometer our population is 68.4 million versus France at 65.5 million.

I suppose we need to be western centric as we are a western nation.

@MarshaBradyo

Well that didn't happen with smoking (which unlike SARS-CoV-2 actually boosts the economy), nor seat belts, speeding limits, and drink driving but...

It already has for masks, we’ve had a range of responses, so why you think it won’t revert is odd.

Plan b will end pretty soon.

Bad luck if you are holding onto seat belt law but it will change.

I know it will (in England).

Despite the fact that we have some safety mitigations (like the ones I mention above).

But yes you're right England will do the wrong thing. But doing the wrong thing doesn't make it suddenly alright.

We can't always stop bad things being done but we don't have to condone them.

Oh forgot to address the fall due to tests, PCRs are down 9.1% on the week average, certainly no where near enough to explain the difference between UK and France.