Why does no one talk about T cell immunity

[Rabblesthecat]

Yes, we know antibodies wane quickly but T cell immunity is more difficult to test for

If you have T cell immunity then you might get symptoms until those T cells make new antibodies. But the symptoms will be mild. (Unless dengue fever)

We seem to be so obsessed about waiting antibodies that we are ignoring the second line defense which all science is saying is long lasting..

We don’t need repeated boosters if we have T cell immunity.

My theory is that antibodies are easy to explain and the general public is too thick to understand T cell

I think there are articles where the Astrazeneca team are saying that they didn't necessarily think boosters were necessary for exactly those reasons, especially in light of a 'milder' varient.

@Rabblesthecat I think you're correct. I have a background in science as does my dad and we've talked at length about these types of inconsistencies. My DH is intelligent (technically a genius) but the extent of his scientific knowledge is a GCSE and I can tell he's clueless beyond superficial knowledge. Majority of the public probably haven't heard of a T cell.

I was a scientist and whilst I've heard of them, I'm not entirely sure how they work, they seem to be a lot more complicated than antibodies!

Plus it seems to be very complicated to test for them

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53764640

I wonder what ever came of this research.

@Rabblesthecat

"My theory is that antibodies are easy to explain and the general public is too thick to understand T cell"

How very condescending. I don't know where to begin, so I'll leave it there.

Do you even understand T cells??? T cells don't make antibodies. And you haven't actually explained much about T cell immunity in your post. So please go ahead and explain to us what important point we are missing...

I take medication that suppresses T-Cells. It means there’s no t-cell immunity/protection for me. I saw someone else explain it as the medication switches off the T cell response. I know
What t cells are, what they do and what mine don’t do when I take Medication. The excitement of society at T cell memory still doesn’t help a large swathe of immunosuppressed people….

Right ok.

Are you talking about t cell immunity in general or memory t cells specific to covid-19?

T cells also don't directly produce antibodies.

There's actually several studies looking at the longevity of t cell memory after covid 19 infection in this country and indeed after vaccination. Generally it's not that difficult to test in a trial setting.

The reasons people care about inducing antibodies is that it's then possible to prevent infection entirely. most vaccines are designed to make your body produce neutralising antibodies, which stick to virus and prevent it infecting you at all. Much better than this 'waiting for t cell immunity to kick in' malarkey' and with fewer infections, the virus replicates less which reduces the risk of new mutations like Omicron

www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2550-z

www.imperial.ac.uk/news/201833/cell-immunity-what-does-help-protect/

www.britannica.com/science/T-cell

T Cell immunity is not 100% guaranteed, if it exists in a patient, then there's no guarantee that it's effective.

www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-07-16-t-cell-training-grounds-behind-robust-immune-system-response-seen-adenovirus

You probably need to re-read your last sentence and have a bit of a think OP. Irony and all that.

It's normal for antibodies to wane over time, so the public should understand that. It's certainly not a failing of these vaccines (not that you said that, OP, just putting it out there). T cells are more complicated to understand (although Heaven knows we've now had long enough for everyone to have been given enough information to grasp the basics) - and yes as PPs have said, T cells don't make antibodies, that would be B cells.

Certainly Shane Crotty and Alessandro Sette and their groups at La Jolla Institute in California are studying T cell immunity in particular in connection with SARS-CoV-2, and they've put out several fantastic papers on the subject. A search on Google Scholar brings up the following:

scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_ylo=2021&q=alessandro+sette+shane+crotty&btnG=

I think because T cell immunity can potentially last for years, and we are comparatively early on in this pandemic, we have yet to really see just how long-lived T cell immunity will be for SARS-CoV-2. Certainly for the original SARS T cell immunity was shown to exist 17 years after infection. The emphasis has been on neutralising antibodies in the media, probably because it's far easier to get that data (not because the public are thick!).

It's definitely being talked about. In fact, I've seen people talking about, links to the articles even on MN, but more on other forums.
I was quite happy with 2 vaccines because I've read that it still prevent severe illness even after antibody wanes, but also happy to get booster so the chance of me getting infected in the first place is reduced.

It was going well until your last sentence

The Royal Institution Christmas Lecture focused on viruses this year, and they explain T cells in the first one. They're on iPlayer. The scientist who explains them has a research specialism of T cells, and was part of the team working on the Oxford vaccine.

All of my knowledge of t cells comes from resident evil so.....

In defence of op, I read it more that the people who inform the general public via statements in the press etc assume the general public are a bit thick. Not that the op thinks the public are thick

My theory is that antibodies are easy to explain and the general public is too thick to understand T cell

Don’t be so bloody patronising.

In defence of op, I read it more that the people who inform the general public via statements in the press etc assume the general public are a bit thick. Not that the op thinks the public are thick

That's how I read it too.

@BigotSpigot

I think there are articles where the Astrazeneca team are saying that they didn't necessarily think boosters were necessary for exactly those reasons, especially in light of a 'milder' varient.

AZ are so underrated. They get on quietly with their work, don't make a fuss and seem genuine in wanting to help the world get over the pandemic. Unlike other large companies who censor any bad press and sell booster after booster to make ££££.

@Rabblesthecat

Yes, we know antibodies wane quickly but T cell immunity is more difficult to test for

If you have T cell immunity then you might get symptoms until those T cells make new antibodies. But the symptoms will be mild. (Unless dengue fever)

We seem to be so obsessed about waiting antibodies that we are ignoring the second line defense which all science is saying is long lasting..

We don’t need repeated boosters if we have T cell immunity.

My theory is that antibodies are easy to explain and the general public is too thick to understand T cell

Why are you bringing the general public into it? We didn’t make the decisions. The world governments decided to all follow one science which didn’t really inform on this.

I think that it is because antibodies are relatively straightforward to measure. I assume would be one of the endpoints in the vaccine trials.

I know a little about T-cells, in my case T-cells do not work in my favour. I am on a disease modifying drug for MS that is specifically designed to target them as they will attack my Central Nervous System. T cells become activated in the lymph system and in MS, enter the CNS through blood vessels. Once in the CNS, T cells release chemicals that cause inflammation and damage. This results in damage to myelin, nerve fibers and the cells that make myelin.

I would like to know more about COVID-19 and T-cells. A missed opportunity perhaps. It would be great if T Cells could cause the same destruction to the COVID-19 virus.

@Shitfuckcommaetc

All of my knowledge of t cells comes from resident evil so.....

I’m a Microbiology student and every time T Cells come up, the Resident Evil games/films are all I can think about

Which one are you on @Roselilly36? I'm on a DMT that takes out my B cells hence I have practically no antibodies despite vaccination.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate

Which one are you on *@Roselilly36*? I'm on a DMT that takes out my B cells hence I have practically no antibodies despite vaccination.

Tecfidera