Why does no one talk about T cell immunity

[Rabblesthecat]

Yes, we know antibodies wane quickly but T cell immunity is more difficult to test for

If you have T cell immunity then you might get symptoms until those T cells make new antibodies. But the symptoms will be mild. (Unless dengue fever)

We seem to be so obsessed about waiting antibodies that we are ignoring the second line defense which all science is saying is long lasting..

We don’t need repeated boosters if we have T cell immunity.

My theory is that antibodies are easy to explain and the general public is too thick to understand T cell

It seems many scientists - including SAGE - don’t know either!

Thanks @Roselilly36 I hadn't realised that that one targeted T cells. It's interesting that drugs to treat the same illness work so differently!

@PastMyBestBeforeDate I was previously on Rebif, that causes me issues, went onto Tecfidera quite some years ago, very convenient tablet twice a day etc. I am now Secondary Progressive, but told to stay on Tec as Neurologist can’t be sure I won’t relapse.

It's good that you're on one that's working :) I had to step up to infusion after a bad relapse in 2019. Terrible timing to have to subdue my immune system

@PastMyBestBeforeDate

It's good that you're on one that's working :) I had to step up to infusion after a bad relapse in 2019. Terrible timing to have to subdue my immune system

Good luck going forward .

I agree that there needs to be more information out there about t-cells. Especially with all the press about antibodies waning after vaccination so quickly. Many people may think ‘what’s the point’ !

I’m going to ignore the last line of your OP! As it’s an interesting discussion point.

I read it’s much more expensive to test for t-cells. So that may be why there is less focus. I do think they may well be the key to us building up long lasting immunity to Covid. Whenever I read a report about t-cells I feel more optimistic.

You read time after time in here about people being worried they have no antibodies. Or that means they have zero protection. So it would be good going forward to get the info out there. Our immune systems are complex and wonderful.

T cells and B cells have been called "immunological dark matter," because they're doing important stuff but it's hard to measure what's going on.
As I understand, when the immune systems of original SARS survivors were challenged 17 years after infection, they showed a robust response. I think T cell and B cells responses for COVID will turn out to be pretty good too.

You call people “thick” @Rabblesthecat but your post isn’t correct. Your understanding of the role of T cells is flawed.

I'd love to have faith in my T cells.

Reasons why I'm less confident:

• 3 Pfizer vaccines, never had an AZ vaccine.

(I accept the antibodies from these Pfizer vaccines wane, hence I'd quite like another at 4 months)

• 150,000 people in the UK (5.5 million worldwide?) whose T-cells were less than adequate, not all of them were very elderly or very vulnerable; in fact plenty were my age

Maybe people who've never had an AZ vaccine should be given one?

Some of the experts talk like they have made an assumption that everyone had T cell protection from their AZ vaccine and don't need more boosters. some people only ever had Pfizer

Sorry can't do link (technologically inadequate🤷) but interesting article out today, talking about t cells from common cold proving to stop people contracting covid. Anecdotal but a friend had someone test positive 2 days after Xmas Dinner, 7 people out of the 9 went on to test positive apart from the two who had recently had a bad cold. Article was saying it bodes well for producing future vaccines that don't target the spike protein but something common to all corona viruses which would then cover any variant👏👏

@Rabblesthecat

Yes, we know antibodies wane quickly but T cell immunity is more difficult to test for

If you have T cell immunity then you might get symptoms until those T cells make new antibodies. But the symptoms will be mild. (Unless dengue fever)

We seem to be so obsessed about waiting antibodies that we are ignoring the second line defense which all science is saying is long lasting..

We don’t need repeated boosters if we have T cell immunity.

My theory is that antibodies are easy to explain and the general public is too thick to understand T cell

Because this is stuff that cannot be discussed properly by non-experts. To your OP, T cells don't make antibodies 😁

3 Pfizer vaccines, never had an AZ vaccine.

I don't understand this point, Pfizer vaccines mount very strong T cell response also.

150,000 people in the UK (5.5 million worldwide?) whose T-cells were less than adequate, not all of them were very elderly or very vulnerable; in fact plenty were my age

The vast majority of these people weren't vaccinated. Deaths rates among those vaccinated, outside of the very vulnerable groups have plummeted.

I agree that T cell response is harder to understand, but equally the media have done a poor job at communicating their role. So many reports have seemed to indicate that antibodies are the beginning and end of it.

I think it has been reported that AZ vaccines do a better job than Pfizer as regards T cells, that's all.

Plus, yes, most deaths are in unvaccinated - I know my vaccines are protecting me. But I am nearing the 10 weeks, and have family members past the 10 weeks. I would be less concerned but we know a person IRL (doctor) whose 2nd dose was 9 months before JCVI got around to accepting the need for a booster who died of Covid and just want to make sure it doesn't happen again. People exposed to high viral loads in their jobs deserve full protection from their employer. I can see that is a slightly different legal perspective from general population-level protection though.

It's clear many of the journalist don't understand it either therefore they can't explain it properly to the general public. Easier to just say 'antibodies' and people understand they mean the thing that stops them getting ill. Most people don't need to understand any more.

I think it has been reported that AZ vaccines do a better job than Pfizer as regards T cells, that's all.

If so the difference is almost certainly minimal. I think we need to differentiate when the media are engaging in scaremongering for clicks. Pfizer protection has clearly held up extremely well.

we know a person IRL (doctor) whose 2nd dose was 9 months before JCVI got around to accepting the need for a booster who died of Covid and just want to make sure it doesn't happen again.

This is very unfortunate and sad, but it is also very rare. I think there is reluctance among the media to report on FR among the vaccinated, because they aren't absolutely zero. But they have absolutely plummeted across the board, regardless of vaccine taken or booster delivered.

Easier to just say 'antibodies' and people understand they mean the thing that stops them getting ill. Most people don't need to understand any more.

Well they do if their takeout is that waning antibodies mean they are totally unprotected. Because that is totally false.

This is a good simple explanation. The jury seems to be out on covid

www.news-medical.net/health/What-are-T-Cells.aspx

Unfortunately most decisions are made by opinion politics and numbers of cases are what they are counting.

I caught covid in early 2020 and had only loss of smell, not since despite direct exposure

Cool theory bro

It is talked about a lot by the people I follow.

There’s a report out on Reuter’s today about findings from Imperial. Confirms naturally-acquired immunity and explains the important role of T-cells. Sorry unable to link. The original article was published in Nature.

Yes I read the Imperial report. Very interesting especially about recent colds offering some immunity via t-cells.

So endless lockdowns and not allowing us to be exposed to colds was not a good thing. Yes I know we needed the first one. And a shorter second one but neither should have gone on for as long as they did.

Because there is no money in natural immunity when there are jabs to flog.

Problem is everyone's T cells and their memory is as unique as the nose on the end of their faces.

And also you may have great memory for some pathogens and a shit memory for others.

Reliance on T cells for population infection immunity is not as reliable as topping up their antibodies every now and again.