Teachers - Anyone else worried?

[foundlingfar]

Any teachers on here concerned about the current covid stats? I am surrounded by kids in my class who's families are isolating, they clearly have symptoms but have tested negative so are able to attend school. I feel like I can't do anything to protect myself and my family 😕. I work with very little children so I'm constantly tying shoe laces, helping to zip up coats, comforting children etc. I'm just so anxious and feel like other workers have been told to 'work from home' or 'limit contact' whereas teachers have been largely expected to get on with it. I know we're not the only ones but in primary, we aren't even allowed to wear masks as children need to see us speak etc. I know this is an awful thing to say as I love my job and children, but it's like we are putting the kids before our own health?! And come of us have families and our own children too!

I agree that teachers should absolutely leave if they wish to and there are loads of alternative jobs e.g. as tutors opening up as more and more people homeschool, but telling committed teachers who just want health and safety law to be applied in their workplace to 'just leave' is a bit shit for the kids remaining behind in those same conditions.

I think teachers SHOULD speak up if they think something's unsafe or if risk could be lowered in the classroom. What is safeguarding if not that? They have a responsibility to the children as well as to themselves to do so.

I hate this attitude in the UK of 'oh, you don't like the shitty conditions you're working in, then leave'. If people don't speak up for better workplaces and conditions soon enough everywhere will be a shitty workplace.

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/jan/26/group-campaigning-for-uk-schools-to-reopen-wins-backing-of-17-tory-mps

I think U4T has a lot of Tory support and funding

I agree that I do not understand any parent who would not want air filtration, unless they are an out-and-out covid denier.

I don't think many people are against air filtration. I agree it's a good idea. I just think that some people are trying to point out that it's unlikely to make omicron magically go away--it might slow the spread somewhat.

In some parts of the US, they've been steadily strapping ever-more-cumbersome devices onto ever-younger kids' faces (N95 masks mandatory for kindergarden and preschool in some Democratic cities!?), shouting at kids for not wearing masks perfectly at all times, making kids eat outside when it's absolutely freezing, and making the vaccine mandatory for school. And yet, it seems like none of this is enough, because many schools are still closing in Democratic-voting cities--precisely in the areas where the most mitigations have been put in place. It's as though the existence of more mitigations has just encouraged the schools to develop an ever-more sensitive panic trigger about any cases whatsoever.

I'm happy to have more mitigations in schools and my DD1 wears a surgical mask. But please understand why some of us are starting to get a bit frustrated and are getting cynical about claims of "If only we can put THIS mitigation in place, everyone will be able to stop worrying about covid. No really, honest! We promise it'll work this time!!!"

The stuff I've seen from the US is indicative of a level of panic that is kind of taking on a life of its own, regardless of the actual level of societal harm caused by the virus. The IFR has been dropping pretty steadily, yet the fear seems unending and un-nuanced.

Well in 0-5s the hospitalisation rate is going up.

And no-one is suggesting that mitigations will magically make covid go away, just that it will make educational conditions better and school closures less likely.

I've not seen ANYONE say mitigations will make Omicron disappear - no-one, ever.

And I'll be able to tell my kids when they're older and ask what adults did to protect kids during the pandemic that 'everything possible was done' which I absolutely can't truthfully say now.

@MilesJuppIsMyBitch are you suggesting I am part of that group? Or influenced by it?

I can confirm that I'm not and have no time nor much sympathy for any narrow minded pressure propaganda groups whatever they campaign for.

However, the fact that you think I am and your attempt to discredit my opinion in this way is not very kind nor is it helpful.

I don't know why you falsely claim that my post chimes in with the rhetoric of a DIY pressure group but it signals that perhaps you operate in a bit of an echo chamber, seeing how confident you are about your claim.

See, there isn't and us and them, we are all in this mess together and antagonising posts do nothing to solve the problems we face, they just create friction and division.

If you read my posts, I am very clear about my view on mitigations to keep school as safe as possible while keeping children at school. There are many way and these need looking into.

I don't think MN is the best place to affect change but it seems to provide a space for disgruntled school staff to connect with other disgruntled school staff, which may be therapeutic?

It would be nice if you could apologise for suggesting that my views are those of U4T.

I think we all need to get our heads around the fact that there are no mitigations that are going to really do anything significant...teacher or otherwise.

Most children I know in school in the US are masked all the time except when eating and they can look up their classroom's ventilation status online. They also all have the opportunity to be vaccinated from age 5.

At the risk of getting repetitive: there is no "US" policies. I think you don't actually know anything about the US.

Covid policies in the US vary wildly from area to area, and are closely linked to the very polarized politics there.

In some places, everything was flung open with zero mitigations really really early--much too early in my opinion.

In some deep-blue (heavily Democratic-voting urban) areas, much of the population is absolutely hypnotized with panic and you have total over-reaction in the other direction.

But right now, many schools in the US are failing to open after the winter vacation. And do you know which areas this is happening in? The schools are failing to open in precisely the areas that have been doing the mitigations you describe.

I don't mean that the mitigations are causing covid, obviously; I just mean that any claims that "if only we can do lots of mitigations, schools will definitely stay open and there will be no more covid issues!!!" are demonstrably false. The decision to keep schools closed in the deep-blue metros like Chicago is about politics, not about the actual spread being worse than elsewhere.

Mitigations may also reduce initial viral dose and make severe disease in teachers and kids less likely.

@Blubells

But surely the purpose of working from home is to avoid overwhelming the nhs, that we're not all off sick at the same time. It's not to protect people from catching omicron?

A bit of empathy would be good

@theemperorhasnoclothes

Well in 0-5s the hospitalisation rate is going up.

And no-one is suggesting that mitigations will magically make covid go away, just that it will make educational conditions better and school closures less likely.

I've not seen ANYONE say mitigations will make Omicron disappear - no-one, ever.

And I'll be able to tell my kids when they're older and ask what adults did to protect kids during the pandemic that 'everything possible was done' which I absolutely can't truthfully say now.

Which is usual at this time of year (bronchiolitis etc). These kids have covid, not all are admitted because of covid. All of them are tested on the way in the door and of course increasing numbers will be testing positive for covid as covid is everywhere at the minute. This age group is unvaccinated so largely unprotected, are we surprised so many have covid right now? The data is still showing omicron to be very mild for most, regardless of whether you are under or over the age of 5.

@Nidan2Sandan

Are you usually so anxious about catching a cold??

Because for the vast majority, this is exactly what it is.

All leading health experts issuing warnings not to consider it a mild disease

Also, that would be quite an odd and specific question for your dc to ask and even more so for you to anticipate them asking.

Most teachers, in schools across the country are just getting on with their job and are extremely good at what they're doing.

The implication here would seem to be that the OP is not 'just getting on with her job.

Covid is here to stay and will flare up in waves for the next few years or even decades. If being around children feels too unsettling and unsafe it's probably sensible to strata looking into changing careers and looking for jobs that allow ex-teachers to WFH rather than expecting schools to close so they can WFH.

You're setting up a false binary. Teachers are asking for mitigations to help keep schools open, and to protect them and their students. Suggesting that teachers should change careers because they are scared of covid is minimising, at best.

I suspect, however, it's not the classroom where people catch covid but sitting and chatting at lunch or socialising with friends. Of course there will be many teachers also, who have passed on Covid to their pupils, it's common sense. There is also the issue of super spreading and recent research suggests that younger kids are less likely to be 'vectors of transmission' due to the levels of aerosols they project.

This is all speculation, and once again seems like an attempt to minimise teachers' concerns. Pupils have always spread their illnesses amongst each other, and infected staff, and this is a novel virus.

I feel empathy for the teachers on MN who are anxious about being around 30+ families, I hope, seeing that Covid isn't going anywhere soon, these lovely people will be able to transition to alternative jobs where they feel safe and in control. '

Once again, patronising, and insinuating that the onus is on the teacher to leave, rather than for the DofE to problem-solve, lead and finance.

Now, you may not have intended to sound like an U4T ambassador, but most of that post reads like comes from their manual.

I see in later posts that yo7 are pro-vax & -mask, so clearly not U4T. So yes, I apologise for that accusation, but I hope you can see how I arrived at that conclusion from your first post.

if it makes you unhappy and anxious you must look into alternatives, it's not worth it, protect your mental health! There are many jobs in the private sector that let you WFH, look into retraining or jobs where being an ex-teacher is seen as an asset

or maybe the Government could spend some of it's cash making schools healthier places so teaching is a viable career for the majority not just a gung-ho minority who are young? Perhaps my age and experience should be valued, by colleagues, parents, the Government? Maybe I'm good at what I do and want to keep on doing it? Maybe I have no interest in other work because this is what I want to do? Why shouldn't I expect a safer working environment without having to change careers to one that would allow me to be permanently isolated at home?

@luckylavender Chris Witty said way back in early 2020 that Covid was a mild disease for the vast majority.

@theemperorhasnoclothes
I haven't seen anyone claim that mitigations will make omicron go away but I have seen claims that mitigations will make children and teachers, particularly CEV ones "safer". But if the difference the mitigations make is that they catch omicron in February rather than January (and if cloth masks make maybe a 7% difference in transmission even that delay is optimistic) they are not making anyone safer.

The arguments around disruption to education etc. make a bit more sense but (except for ventilation) the things you would actually need to do to significantly reduce disruption due to children catching covid are also very disruptive or have their own downsides, particularly when used indefinitely. Plus once you accept a need to reduce transmission, it seems that mitigation measures spiral as the moderate ones fail to work, as seen in some part of the US.

The situation in Chicago is an example of what happens when you prioritise being "covid-secure" over everything else. I believe public schools were closed for nearly a year. There were loads of mitigation measures in place when they reopened. Schools are now closed again due to high cases. Poor students, including African-American students are disproportionately affected because they are more likely to be at public schools.

Genuine question....what would make schools a healthier environment? Do they all need rebuilt so the classrooms are bigger? What realistically can be done? Are schools unhealthier than office environments?

@Sowhatifiam yeah they should invest in making schools safer places but first just get the kids in.

@Pootle40

Better ventilation for a start and a major recruitment drive m!

I see in later posts that yo7 are pro-vax & -mask, so clearly not U4T. So yes, I apologise for that accusation, but I hope you can see how I arrived at that conclusion from your first post. I appreciate that, thank you .

I must say that I really dislike the pro-vac rhetoric, it's all being used for political ends as @user1477391263 brilliantly outline in her post about the US. I don't take the label 'pro vax' I do however chose to get vaccinated and am glad I can access this evidence-based intervention as many in poorer countries cannot. Dc1 is already vaccinated awaiting their second and I'd jump at the offer of vaccinating dc2 but they've had Covid and incidentally despite us not keeping our distance from DC2 the rest of the family did not get infected.

I can see how it comes across as a false binary but at the same time posting on MN time and time again how dreadful it is for teachers to be teaching our kids in school and how kids and families are scary is stressful to read.

I'm not saying that you are doing this but there are many posts in this vain. These posts often come across as very one sided but I appreciate that it must be a reflection on the horrible stresses we all experience, teachers and everyone else who has been impacted by Covid most of us.

Stress and fear makes us feel polarised and antagonistic, which I believe is something to be afraid of. Parents and teachers are not enemies, yes some parents on MN sound entitled with their 'precious offspring' as indeed they are in RL, most of us however are not like that and all of us have been rattled by Covid. Reading that we just want free child-care to pursue our careers and don't really care about our kids' education just want them to be out of the house feels offensive.

I feel that we all have a responsibility to post in a sensible way, without further promoting division. Robust discussion is great and so very needed but it's less helpful to paint parents or indeed teachers are hopelessly selfish.

I suppose the government has left us in this position and while we are busy bun fighting, they carry on with whatever it is they do without really public scrutiny.

@Pootle40

Genuine question....what would make schools a healthier environment? Do they all need rebuilt so the classrooms are bigger? What realistically can be done? Are schools unhealthier than office environments?

Ventilation systems apparently are quite effective. I heard someone earlier say a study compared a room using one with a room not and found when they sampled surfaces, the unventilated room had 5 times more 'crap' there. I don't know though the exact impact this has on reducing covid transmission as it won't eradicate the particles altogether. I imagine it should be used in conjunction with masks. I believe they cost around £500 and one is needed in each classroom, presumably there will be maintenance costs too and consumables.

I personally think children should have to stay at home if someone in their household has covid.

Ireland have installed these HEPA filters, enforced mask wearing and household contacts must stay at home, it will be interesting to see how it impacts their stats now schools have returned today. They have also started to vaccinate the 5+ age group.

@user1477391263

I agree that I do not understand any parent who would not want air filtration, unless they are an out-and-out covid denier.

I don't think many people are against air filtration. I agree it's a good idea. I just think that some people are trying to point out that it's unlikely to make omicron magically go away--it might slow the spread somewhat.

In some parts of the US, they've been steadily strapping ever-more-cumbersome devices onto ever-younger kids' faces (N95 masks mandatory for kindergarden and preschool in some Democratic cities!?), shouting at kids for not wearing masks perfectly at all times, making kids eat outside when it's absolutely freezing, and making the vaccine mandatory for school. And yet, it seems like none of this is enough, because many schools are still closing in Democratic-voting cities--precisely in the areas where the most mitigations have been put in place. It's as though the existence of more mitigations has just encouraged the schools to develop an ever-more sensitive panic trigger about any cases whatsoever.

I'm happy to have more mitigations in schools and my DD1 wears a surgical mask. But please understand why some of us are starting to get a bit frustrated and are getting cynical about claims of "If only we can put THIS mitigation in place, everyone will be able to stop worrying about covid. No really, honest! We promise it'll work this time!!!"

The stuff I've seen from the US is indicative of a level of panic that is kind of taking on a life of its own, regardless of the actual level of societal harm caused by the virus. The IFR has been dropping pretty steadily, yet the fear seems unending and un-nuanced.

Are you American? Do you have family there? Because that isn't the experience of any of my family.

[quote Pootle40]@luckylavender Chris Witty said way back in early 2020 that Covid was a mild disease for the vast majority.[/quote]
And this week he warned that it wasn't to be regarded as such. As did Tedros Ghebreyesus

OP you might be expected to take a mask off for teaching, but it would seem sensible to wear one (the fp2 (?) type that gives you some protection) while getting them ready for break or whatever causes the need for shoe lace tying etc. Put one one for close contact, take off if you're at the front.
I wouldn't ask permission for that, I'd just do it.

@Pootle40

Genuine question....what would make schools a healthier environment? Do they all need rebuilt so the classrooms are bigger? What realistically can be done? Are schools unhealthier than office environments?

Wat back when the BSF project was badly implemented a lot of school buildings were found to have Sick Building Syndrome. Asbestos is still often found in schools. Most schools have antiquated air blown heating systems and vanishingly few have adequate ventilation.

I also think lay people don't realise how very overcrowded they are. The corridors and canteens were built often in the 70s or beforehand and have not been able to expand with expanding school rolls.