Teachers - Anyone else worried?

[foundlingfar]

Any teachers on here concerned about the current covid stats? I am surrounded by kids in my class who's families are isolating, they clearly have symptoms but have tested negative so are able to attend school. I feel like I can't do anything to protect myself and my family 😕. I work with very little children so I'm constantly tying shoe laces, helping to zip up coats, comforting children etc. I'm just so anxious and feel like other workers have been told to 'work from home' or 'limit contact' whereas teachers have been largely expected to get on with it. I know we're not the only ones but in primary, we aren't even allowed to wear masks as children need to see us speak etc. I know this is an awful thing to say as I love my job and children, but it's like we are putting the kids before our own health?! And come of us have families and our own children too!

@SpikeyBrush the harvard article you linked to suggests 5 year olds (and over) should be vaccinated and masked in school. Most children I know in school in the US are masked all the time except when eating and they can look up their classroom's ventilation status online. They also all have the opportunity to be vaccinated from age 5.

This is standard in the USA of course and its a USA article. So very much not coming from the same point of view as the UK situation where there is what most people I know in the USA think is a shockingly cavalier attitude to child safety. In the UK no primary children are masked or vaccinated, many classrooms have no ventilation, no air filters and no CO2 monitors (or one per school as in my DDs primary).

Omicron has a different mechanism of cell entry to Delta - there are data from SA and USA that suggest it's more serious for children 0-5. Is this really a risk we're willing to take while not doing the most basic things?

I'm amazed.

Like a pp btw, NG's name is very familiar to me, so I'm awaiting the outrage / confrontation from her

This comment seems rather deliberately inflammatory behaviour, which is against MN talk guidelines.

@rrhuth you haven't answered my question: What is the reasonable alternative?
Talking about money, government and funding isn't a concrete solution to containing the spread in schools.

It was (or possibly still is?) compulsory for children as young as 2yo to wear masks at childcare in the states. This was before Omicron existed. I'm from the states originally and I'm not sure they've got everything right there from a child safety perspective.

I personally think that all children wearing masks except when eating would be a questionable move. Especially now that we're two years in. That is two years of mask wearing for long periods of time at a very young age. Even with the increased risk of severe illness to younger children, the risk is still low. 20% increase (I'm sure I read it was this as a worst case scenario, but don't ask me to quote and I am happy to be corrected) in risk of hospitalizations or severe illness of a very low number of children, is still a low risk.

I'm not saying you're wrong to be worried or to think differently to me, but you are wrong imo to be "amazed" at someone disagreeing with you. It is anything but clear cut

That was to emperor sorry

The bottom line? Public health measures are as important for kids and teens as they are for adults. from the article, I agree with this and am pro vaccine for all age groups, masks and whatever else evidence-based measures mitigate against spread. As I said all this seems common sense. The sense of chaos due to staff absences in schools must contribute to a lot of anxiety. I also agree that boosting schools with Covid grants need urgent looking into. However, I'd always advise if your job seems to have change to the point that it causes you unacceptable levels of stress and fear, it is time to move on. Anyone entering the teaching profession now needs to go into it with eyes wide open, Covid and the associated challenges are here to stay, we need a long-term view.

I agree @SpikeyBrush. Teachers have been leaving in their droves and I can understand it. It doesn't fall on the teachers personally to stay in their jobs and take risks they find unacceptable. I would absolutely encourage teachers to leave if they feel anxious and unsafe at work. People have done similar in my industry (I am a waitress).

Agree new teachers should be aware of all the impacts covid has had on the job.

Yes, it sucks. It isn't fair. A lot of people have had to deal with these changes changes uncertainty at work because of covid. I'm annoyed too.

I'm amazed that the government isn't bothering with ventilation or air filtration.

That's what I'm amazed about, and that everyone seemingly is ok with that when as others have pointed out they've easily overspent about 20 billion on test and trace. And the cost of an air filter in every classroom would be half the cost of the royal yacht and could be done by Monday.

There is literally no downside to air filtration. In fact, it will also help with other diseases and probably cut staff and child absence in general.

[quote Sinuhe]@rrhuth you haven't answered my question: What is the reasonable alternative?
Talking about money, government and funding isn't a concrete solution to containing the spread in schools.[/quote]
The reasonable alternative to what? There is a middle ground between schools closed and schools with no measures. We need far more robust mitigations including air filtration and investment in ventilation beyond just 'open the windows'. We should be using better quality masks and also helping schools where there are identified overcrowding issues. We have thrown up temporary Nightongale hospitals and mortuaries to deal with the deaths and health fall out, but nothing is going in to protect education.

My view is that classroom/year group/school closures on an ad hoc basis are very disruptive and we should be safeguarding all education.

We can not stop covid spreading, but we can reduce the number of people it spreads to on each occasion that an infectious person comes into school. That is a worthwhile thing to do because it protects the education of those pupils, it prevents the spread to families, it prevents a situation where a calss/year/school must shut due to staffing gaps.

There is no serious cost/benefit analysis going on regarding tackling this ongoing problem. We are doing nothing to prevent the next Omicron situation churning it all up again.

The cost is minimal. It's a choice not to protect children, their teachers and schools' capacity to have in person education.

The people who are up in arms about kids being in school should be the ones leading the charge for air filters. But they're not. Bit odd.

@theemperorhasnoclothes

The cost is minimal. It's a choice not to protect children, their teachers and schools' capacity to have in person education.

The people who are up in arms about kids being in school should be the ones leading the charge for air filters. But they're not. Bit odd.

I agree that I do not understand any parent who would not want air filtration, unless they are an out-and-out covid denier.

The fact we will apparently build a pointless yacht even the Queen doesn't want and won't improve air in our classrooms blows my mind too.

I don't think the US is a good example on children and masks. 2 year olds in masks is abusive and unsafe imo. The US (in parts) has gone against WHO advice on young children and masks here and shown its willingness to prioritise covid policy over child safety, including a risk of choking for young children.

We don't know what the long-term impact on children's development of wearing masks over a long period for almost all of their interaction with other children would be. We do know that masks don't work well enough to prevent children from ever catching covid over a period of years (latest government study reported in the BBC could find no statistically significant impact from mask wearing in schools on covid related absences over a 2 week period- www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59895934). So at best they have a small impact on slowing down transmission. So children will catch covid anyway - particularly if they are in a daycare setting before they go to school where they catch everything.

It would seem completely disproportionate for primary school children to spend the whole of their education in masks for an illness which is not dangerous to the vast majority and is less dangerous than other illnesses are to young children and which they will mostly catch regardless. And if you did put such stringent measures in place that they successfully prevented children catching normal childhood illnesses you'd likely leave them with no immune system.

I think what's really worrying is what this means for state education going forward in this country.

I think it's probably deliberate - if they won't pay the minimal cost of air filters during a pandemic, during a wave which is hospitalising 0-5s at a faster rate and which is causing schools to shut years due to staff absences, they'll NEVER invest in state schools.

And they're trying to turn the air filtration in schools issue into a profit making exercise too - by insisting schools buy from Dyson at inflated rates.

It's absolutely blatant disregard for the health of teachers, children and their families (non rich ones, the ones who can't afford private schools of course) and clear as day profiteering.

There is a petition with just shy of 10 000 signatures if you have a quick Google (don't think I'm allowed to link?). It's to ask government to fund ventilation in schools.

I might try my dickhead mp again and frame it as it would be useful anyway since he's basically a covid denier

@Chessie678

I don't think the US is a good example on children and masks. 2 year olds in masks is abusive and unsafe imo. The US (in parts) has gone against WHO advice on young children and masks here and shown its willingness to prioritise covid policy over child safety, including a risk of choking for young children.

We don't know what the long-term impact on children's development of wearing masks over a long period for almost all of their interaction with other children would be. We do know that masks don't work well enough to prevent children from ever catching covid over a period of years (latest government study reported in the BBC could find no statistically significant impact from mask wearing in schools on covid related absences over a 2 week period- www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59895934). So at best they have a small impact on slowing down transmission. So children will catch covid anyway - particularly if they are in a daycare setting before they go to school where they catch everything.

It would seem completely disproportionate for primary school children to spend the whole of their education in masks for an illness which is not dangerous to the vast majority and is less dangerous than other illnesses are to young children and which they will mostly catch regardless. And if you did put such stringent measures in place that they successfully prevented children catching normal childhood illnesses you'd likely leave them with no immune system.

No-one is suggesting masks for 2-5 year olds in the UK.

We're talking about other mitigations, which makes the need for masks less.

What about the rising numbers of small children in hospital with covid? Do we care about them or only imaginary 2 year olds in masks (of which there are none in the UK)? What about the CEV kids who are having to stay home because there's no other mitigations in schools?

I'm getting more worried, a couple of my colleagues have tested positive these last few days and we're not back until Monday!

Agree @Chessie678

My point about the article linked is that it's not a useful point for discussion given it's coming from a position of there being multiple mitigations in schools plus also vaccinations for 5+ all of which are totally lacking in the UK.

No-one is suggesting masks for 2-5 year olds in the UK.

I think you were the one who brought up that wearing masks all day unless eating is standard in the US. People are pointing out that is not necessarily a good thing.

We're talking about other mitigations, which makes the need for masks less.

That's different. I wouldn't support primary age children wearing masks all day at school. I genuinely would take a break from work and homeschool.

'Most teachers, in schools across the country are just getting on with their job and are extremely good at what they're doing.

Covid is here to stay and will flare up in waves for the next few years or even decades. If being around children feels too unsettling and unsafe it's probably sensible to strata looking into changing careers and looking for jobs that allow ex-teachers to WFH rather than expecting schools to close so they can WFH.

WRT mitigations, the jury on mask wearing is out apparently, although common sense dictates that wearing masks will reduce transmission. Having good airflow in classrooms is common sense too and straightforward to invest in.

I suspect, however, it's not the classroom where people catch covid but sitting and chatting at lunch or socialising with friends. Of course there will be many teachers also, who have passed on Covid to their pupils, it's common sense. There is also the issue of super spreading and recent research suggests that younger kids are less likely to be 'vectors of transmission' due to the levels of aerosols they project.

This is a great article
https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/coronavirus-outbreak-and-kids

I feel empathy for the teachers on MN who are anxious about being around 30+ families, I hope, seeing that Covid isn't going anywhere soon, these lovely people will be able to transition to alternative jobs where they feel safe and in control. '

Wow. Masterly U4T rhetoric from @SpikeyBrush , there.

for you, OP. I'd feel the same in your position.

Increasingly convinced that U4T want to actually abolish state schools and just have substandard childcare for the majority whilst they send their kids to private schools.

They're definitely not acting in kids best interests. Suggesting that teachers who are able to rationally assess classroom risk, then in line with most scientific experts conclude a lot more could be done to protect them and the children they teach should leave teaching?

So basically any teacher who can add up 2+2=4 should leave because they can see the truth? Rather than voice their concerns about their working conditions and the children's conditions in school? Just abandon the kids to shitty and declining conditions?

These are absolutely the teachers we should be doing everything to protect and retain in the profession. Critical thinkers, not sheep.

But that's not what U4T want.

@Sowhatifiam

oh and you don't think the crisis in teaching is worry enough without suggesting that anyone who is worried about covid should just leave?!

This is not the fault or the problem of individual staff and they should not be guilted into staying due to staffing issues. If staff are this miserable, they should look for something better and be encouraged to do so. Maybe then something would have to be done about conditions in schools, instead of covering it up! Personally, I say fair play to anyone who moves on from working in schools if it benefits their own health. I have been this miserable in a job before and retraining was the best thing I ever did - any mess I left behind with staffing was NOT my problem...

Are you usually so anxious about catching a cold??

Because for the vast majority, this is exactly what it is.

Increasingly convinced that U4T want to actually abolish state schools and just have substandard childcare for the majority whilst they send their kids to private schools.

This makes no sense. If they felt this way, they would just send their kids to private schools and not care about the kids going to state schools. Also, from what I have seen on Us For Them, I think they are mostly lower income and less educated than average.