How long do you think the WFH message will last?

[Bananagurl]

Just curious... I massively prefer it and feel just as productive as home, if not more...

[quote balalake1]@Bluntness100 Omicron in London maybe plateauing, but come the time of the next decision (late January) there may be the full impact of any increase in hospitalisation (hope none of course).

I'm also recognising that Mr Johnson takes weeks to make a decision to change anything.[/quote]
But it’s really about hospitalisations and deaths, and people actually are being treated for Covid or in for other reason. At the moment it’s not translating to hospital and deaths, thankfully and I’m certainly not going to predict it is and to such a horrific extent thr guidance stays for another three months,

But it’s really about hospitalisations and deaths

It's also about Long Covid. Or at least, it should be.

At the moment it’s not translating to hospital and deaths

Except for the 100s of deaths a week, of course. And high number of hospitalisations. London's high plateau, and now rising in other parts of the country.

Btw reports stating that London's (already quite high) level of icu admissions might have stopped increasing neglect to point out that the most frail aren't strong enough to go onto ventilators.

We definitely do need to get the economy going again - including return to offices, at least part-time, when safe. Hence the need for sensible basic infection control mitigations - i.e. masks, vaccine passes, good ventilation (including HEPA filters).

I love it and won't ever work in an office again (my role is now perma WFH except the odd training event). But I have my own office, a proper IT setup and am an introvert. I feel for those who don't have space or a lockable door to escape behind!!

I think hybrid flexibility is the right answer - ability for people to work part from home, part in the office if they want, or fully in office once Covid is less of a thing. But I think the landscape of work has been changed forever and a lot of employers have realise WFH isn't the bogeyman they once thought it was.

Also we talk about WFH being bad for businesses, but what we mean is that WFH is bad for the high streets and better for the communities in which we actually live. I haven't been to the city centre in months but I have spent lots of money in our local coffee shop and with the other small businesses that are in our neighbourhood and personally I'd rather see my money going where I live. Our local food places etc are absolutely thriving due to the increased traffic.

Full-time permanent WFH is great for those privileged enough to be able to afford a suitable work from home environment, and generally those who are a bit older and settled in life.

It's shit for everybody else.

Shit for the young just starting out in the world of work. Likewise older career changers.

It's shit for the many jobs reliant on the office based industry (often lower paid so less likely to have a cushion of savings). Simple maths. Many more people and businesses - and therefore jobs in a city than a town.

And it's very very shit for the significant numbers badly or insecurely housed. Increasing numbers of working people are being made homeless. How do they WFH?

It's also unheathy. As well as the negative economic impact on society, it will also create a more insular one.

I think hybrid flexibility is the right answer - ability for people to work part from home, part in the office if they want, or fully in office once Covid is less of a thing. But I think the landscape of work has been changed forever

Yes, hybrid working offers the best of both worlds. For many jobs it's simply not necessary to be in a physical office every day, so office space can be used more efficiently. Employees can save money on travelling and spend more time in their local communities.

I don't think it's 'bad' for the economy at all. Demand is simply shifting from big city centres to local communities.

@Tealightsandd

Full-time permanent WFH is great for those privileged enough to be able to afford a suitable work from home environment, and generally those who are a bit older and settled in life.

It's shit for everybody else.

Shit for the young just starting out in the world of work. Likewise older career changers.

It's shit for the many jobs reliant on the office based industry (often lower paid so less likely to have a cushion of savings). Simple maths. Many more people and businesses - and therefore jobs in a city than a town.

And it's very very shit for the significant numbers badly or insecurely housed. Increasing numbers of working people are being made homeless. How do they WFH?

Some people hate it for good reasons. But don't speak for broad categories of people, you have no authority to do so. I am a low paid older career changer. WFH full time has been a game-changer for me and I will never go back. I do have a suitable house to work from though.

@Blubells

I think hybrid flexibility is the right answer - ability for people to work part from home, part in the office if they want, or fully in office once Covid is less of a thing. But I think the landscape of work has been changed forever

Yes, hybrid working offers the best of both worlds. For many jobs it's simply not necessary to be in a physical office every day, so office space can be used more efficiently. Employees can save money on travelling and spend more time in their local communities.

I don't think it's 'bad' for the economy at all. Demand is simply shifting from big city centres to local communities.

But it doesn’t matter what you or I think the government will remove plan b and leave it to employers. Some employers will prefer all in the office, others hybrid, others all at home, there is no one answer. There will be no government mandate, it’s not a nanny state, it will be about the individual.

WFH is completely hideous. I would be looking for a new job if I had to do it.

@RoyalFamilyFan I am working in a separate room as my DH and still can hear every word. 1930s flat, there isn't much I can do about that! Its not good for GDPR!

My DH's uncle works in data privacy and he said ideally one should work in a sound proofed office space when working from home to comply with data protection laws.. At work, one can always book a meeting room for such confidential calls but hardly anyone has that option. I am now imagining a new build development of apartments where there are 'bookable meeting rooms' and sound proofed office cubicles downstairs, as well as a gym and bar for the social aspect. That would actually be ideal for WFH. But those apartments are likely to be in the million pound category... I did read about a development of apartments in East London in Homes and Properties which had separate wfh spaces but the flats were about £700k for a 3 bed flat...

@onlychildhamster sounds very OTT.
I work in an open-plan office where people can hear my calls, including visitors walking by. If anything was that confidential I would take a call in the corridor. I can still do that at home.
I have never had access to bookable meeting rooms for just a phone call. Meeting rooms are in high demand.
My workplace know my wfh set up and are happy with it.

@RoyalFamilyFan thats fine, you all work for the same company. Imagine if you and your partner work for competing firms. During lockdown, that was often the case, a lot of young people have flatshares with people in the same industry but different companies. Of course in lockdown, it can't be helped but all it takes is 1 incident/leak for them to take it seriously.

DP and I work for different forms, but they are not competitors.
House shares are far harder for confidentiality anyway.

FlimFlamAndJudy

WFH is completely hideous. I would be looking for a new job if I had to do it.“

It suits lots of people very well.

I don't think there's a one size fits all to WFH. It's going to suit some more than others. If you have an ideal home set up in a house that is empty most of time and are mentally resilient to long periods of isolation then it can be preferable to commuting and possibly more productive depending on what your job is.

I feel for most people a flexible/hybrid approach will be better longer time. Lose the culture of presentee-ism, lose less employee time to sickness and childcare emergencies e.g you can feel too unwell to face the commute but maybe well enough to work a short day on the sofa from your laptop. Bonus being less germs spread around the office by people who drag themselves in with a nasty cold bug.

There are less than ideal scenarios too though. I feel a lot of employers are not considering how their policies affect non employees e.g. the other people who live in the house with the WFH person.

I do have a bit of an issue long term (the pandemic has been an exception where we all have to pull together) with a large corporation I personally don't work for basically acquiring part of my home as an arm of their business because they could save themselves a lot of money (more profit) by closing office space.

I think eventually employers who expect full time WFH will start to be challenged on this aspect and also the associated costs such as an employee needing to kit out a home office, build an extension/loft conversion, having to upgrade to super WIFI for bandwidth, increase in utility costs. All these at the minute are being passed from the employer to the worker. It's an aspect I would like to see Labour MPs and unions challenging.

On a related note, about 10 or so years back when WFH was a much more radical concept BT (the Business and IT services division) ran a long pilot into home working because they foresaw it could be a useful thing with cost saving implications. It ended up being scrapped and not rolled out to the wider company because it was found to be having an adverse affect on employees mental health.

I agree - I don't think there's a one size fits all. For some employees, WFH has a detrimental impact on their mental health, for others it has been great for their mental health. For others, a hybrid model works best.

Whilst the cost of utilities and so on may have increased, offsetting that against the ridiculously high commuting costs many of us have can mean you're better off. I don't think many will build an extension, but even that might be cheaper in the long run and add value to your home as wfh in some form becomes the norm and people start to look for office space in the home.

Of course there's no one size fits all. The problem with this issue is that so many people insist on universalising their experiences. Workplaces are different, people are different, circumstances are different. Blanket pronouncements on any aspect of this are stupid.

Wfh is great if you’re established in your career, aren’t looking for much progression and have a suitable house with space to wfh. It’s not so great of your just starting out or looking for promotion, or if your house isn’t suitable.

Long term employers will have to think of all their employees, and I suspect hybrid working will become the norm, not full time wfh.

@SirChenjins I live in London, most houses already have extensions built! Really rare to see an extension less terrace house where I live- most were 2 up 2 downs which have now become 3 bed terraces. Also you can't extend flats unless they are conversions; I own a flat and even many of the conversion flats have been extended.

But I really do resent the idea that I may have to move from London just because my employer wants to save money on office space they can afford to pay for. thankfully, they have not suggested that but I am looking for an employer which at least guarantees some time in the office. That way, i can stay in London in a 3 bed flat which I already was planning to upgrade to pre pandemic.I accept I might be in the minority who thinks this way; i have colleagues with less space than me; at least I have a home office while some colleagues are staying with family but the colleagues are still huge advocates of WFH despite not having the space. I know people working from their kitchens who are still advocates of WFH.

I have quite liked aspects of wfh but when I actually started going back into the office 1-2 days a week I realised how much I’d missed this extra dimension of life where I got to see other people and be out of the house for most of the day. The Hokey Cokey of all this has exhausted me - we went back in from mid-Oct then were back home for a fortnight due to COP26 (in Glasgow) then back in, then home again in Dec due to Omicron. It’s really frustrating, you just get used to doing it one way, then need to get your head around going back to the other, ad nauseum.

My jobshare partner left in July and wasn’t replaced until November so I was trying to pack 5 days into my 3 contracted days and was exhausted. Then when my new jobshare partner started I’ve had to try and train her remotely, which has been a nightmare as it’s so much more difficult when you’re not sitting in front of a computer together.

I know it’s not the case universally, but I do think for lots of us the lack of social interaction and being in the house so much just aren’t that natural or healthy. I have a young child so work really was my main contact with other adults who are not DH.

We are in wales and have had the WFH guidance reinstated yesterday.
It’s optional but you need to have good reason for staying in the office.
The usual suspects grabbed their stuff and dashed out of the door as soon as they came in and the hard workers who recognise that WFH does not really deliver the service properly they hung back and stayed in the office.
Immediately, once the WFH had gone home and set up the speed of communication reduced, dropped calls were being bounced back to the once left in the office and our own manager (who loves WFH) was showing as ‘busy’ all day and uncontactable.

When you’ve got a manager who is inherently lazy themselves, allows some members of the team an easy ride but puts pressure on the harder working team members to make them catch up it never works. There’s so much resentment already - I’d be happy if WFH was scrapped altogether. It’s a shame as it can work if it’s managed properly but most of the time it isn’t.

Our manager has also reinstated their need to pick children up and take children to school each day - how they managed in the office we don’t know!
It’s piss taking and generates resentment all round

To paraphrase the MN relationship advice, you have a manager problem, not a WFH problem.