How long do you think the WFH message will last?

[Bananagurl]

Just curious... I massively prefer it and feel just as productive as home, if not more...

WFH, or flexible working pattens, is here to stay.

Lol of course, all of us who actually just like to be around other people are lazy time wasters

Lol of course, all of us who actually want to work uninterrupted are people who treat our colleagues like they have the plague.

In my job, we can go into the office if we want, or wfh. Except when restrictions are in place to wfh. The ones choosing the office are not the young staff. They include an older woman who says she wants to get out the house and away from her husband, and a woman who says she finds it very isolating wfh as she lives alone.

@SirChenjins

My DS is starting out in his career as a graduate in a large multinational - he’s 24. He and his peers are really enjoying a hybrid model of wfh/office - they love the reduced commuting and associated costs, they’re enjoying the more flexible hours and because they’re young and adaptable they use technology as the norm to communicate with colleagues across the UK and Europe. The idea that you would commute 5 days a week to an office to work rigid hours seems alien to them - neither he nor his friends and young colleagues have any intention of working in this way.

This is my experience in my workplace. Young people are used to building relationships online. It is a few older staff who have struggled.

@SirChenjins I've seen it so much on mumsnet over the years- posters who are adamant that colleagues are colleagues and never friends. It's a depressing attitude.

Mumsnet gives this impression a lot so I'm not surprised there are so many who love WFH.

@LumosSolem my colleagues are my colleagues. I am friendly with them and am happy to chat to them. But in an earlier job I found out to my cost the problems that can arise when you make real friends with colleagues. I had a horrendous time after a fallout and had to leave my job. Since then I have never mixed the two.
I will chat and be friendly and may even go for an occasional drink, but there is always a boundary there.

Withinthewhirlwind

I think it is a disaster for a whole cohort of 20 somethings, who are attempting to progress their careers from their miserable bedrooms in shared houses. They have none of the social benefits of working in an office, they don’t learn from being around more experienced staff & being stuck almost 24 hrs a day in the same room. My young adult dc and their friends are leaving their graduate roles in droves & looking for anything that takes them out of their bedrooms, I don’t think I know of a single 20 something who is enjoying or thriving in their careers. I think they have been totally overlooked.

I agree with this. A lot of people I know (in 5heir late 30s/40s/50s) were already established in a career and already had scope to wfh. When DC were in primary school a lot of dads seem to do the school run on Fridays because they were wfh.
Lots seem to have space to do so in a family home and liked the fact they got to spend more time with their spouse and kids.
It's a completely different scenario for people at the start of their careers. My nieces and nephews are all in their 20s and loved working in London, some of them in quite swanky offices in the city with gyms, social areas and the social side of wirk -going to bars etc after work. They all moved home during the first lockdown but it was pretty miserable just working from the kitchen table or their bedroom with no social life.

@SirChenjins

My DS is starting out in his career as a graduate in a large multinational - he’s 24. He and his peers are really enjoying a hybrid model of wfh/office - they love the reduced commuting and associated costs, they’re enjoying the more flexible hours and because they’re young and adaptable they use technology as the norm to communicate with colleagues across the UK and Europe. The idea that you would commute 5 days a week to an office to work rigid hours seems alien to them - neither he nor his friends and young colleagues have any intention of working in this way.

But there's a world of difference between hybrid and full time working from home without the opportunity for even adequate support/socialisation. I don't think going back to a 5 day office week is in most people's interests and it's not what I would want. Hybrid is surely the best option for most people?

No, some on MN claim that colleagues can’t be friends, while others say they get on fine with colleagues, while others say they’ve made great friends in their workplace - so it comes as no surprise to me that some people enjoy working at home, some people don’t like it, and others prefer a hybrid model.

The main issue for me if it was permanent and ft wfh would be zoom substitution

If you have a lot of meetings it can be onerous

For people who like it what proportion of work is zoom?

I also agree with pp that plan B which is wfh guidance will end sooner than March, maybe end of Jan

I’m glad sector has adapted and is flexible (it was very bad for women with dc, many left) but I’d loathe all of collaborative working not to be f2f

[quote RoyalFamilyFan]@LumosSolem my colleagues are my colleagues. I am friendly with them and am happy to chat to them. But in an earlier job I found out to my cost the problems that can arise when you make real friends with colleagues. I had a horrendous time after a fallout and had to leave my job. Since then I have never mixed the two.
I will chat and be friendly and may even go for an occasional drink, but there is always a boundary there.[/quote]
@RoyalFamilyFan fair enough- maybe I'm fortunate that that hasn't been my experience, all of my close friends have been made through work. I didn't go to university so didn't make friends there and am only in touch with a couple of old school friends. I've made great friends at work over the years and I've been lucky I suppose. It's fine to feel differently obviously especially with a bad experience in the past but I don't think it should be surprising either that to some people it's an important element of their social lives.

I don't think going back to a 5 day office week is in most people's interests and it's not what I would want. Hybrid is surely the best option for most people

Absolutely agree - and I hope hybrid stays for those who want it and for whose roles allow for it. I know that even hybrid isn’t wanted by some people and employers though.

The young people in my workplace are those choosing to wfh when they are able to come into the office. But then we don't have swanky offices with gyms of trendy bars around the office.
I can see if you work in that kind of environment, an office may be more attractive. We have a horrible open-plan office, a Greggs and newsagents around the corner, and a pretty rough local pub. Other pubs are a bit of a distance away and the next nearest is a Weatherspoons.
I suspect most people work more in my environment rather than a trendy Sex and the City vibe.

@LumosSolem I have said all along that wfh suits some people and does not suit others.
I don't agree with blanket ideas of who it suits either.
Although the people in my workplace for whom wfh really does not suit are either those with very cramped space at home, or with a difficult family - usually partner.

I think long term my organisation will move to hybrid but I don't think there's a feeling that there will be much pressure to do a set amount of days or anything and will vary from team to team.

We definitely don't have a swanky sex and the city office 😁 but the office itself is quite modern and nice and we arent far from a few pubs etc. most definitely not in a swanky town- think more The Office type of town 😁

I think long term my organisation will move to hybrid but I don't think there's a feeling that there will be much pressure to do a set amount of days or anything and will vary from team to team.

We definitely don't have a swanky sex and the city office 😁 but the office itself is quite modern and nice and we arent far from a few pubs etc. most definitely not in a swanky town- think more The Office type of town 😁

I’d loathe all of collaborative working not to be f2f

It depends how you have to do your collaborative working. Mine used to involve driving all over the region and beyond for meetings that would only last a couple of hours at most - I’d spend so much time driving from home to office to meeting and back to office then onto another meeting then back to office then home and so on and on. Now I can go onto Teams for focused meetings and then go straight back to work. It’s brilliant.

We are currently totally WFH unless we absolutely NEED to go into the office (and the office is only open absolute core hours of 9-5 for that purpose, when even during original lockdowns it was open relatively normal hours (7.30 rather than 7 opening, and closing 7pm rather than 8pm).

We had just started back 1 day per week in late Sept, on a rota basis, but fully WFH ordered in late October.

I expect we will be fully WFH for at least another month, maybe more, and then start to phase back into the office. But that we will have some flexibility going forward as the flexible working policy is due to take effect in March (our head of organisation wanted us all back at the desk before that came into effect, to minimise takeup!, but I don't think it's possible now).

@SirChenjins

I’d loathe all of collaborative working not to be f2f

It depends how you have to do your collaborative working. Mine used to involve driving all over the region and beyond for meetings that would only last a couple of hours at most - I’d spend so much time driving from home to office to meeting and back to office then onto another meeting then back to office then home and so on and on. Now I can go onto Teams for focused meetings and then go straight back to work. It’s brilliant.

Can totally see where teams meetings are much better!

It's a blend for me- because it would be helpful to collaborate with direct colleagues in person but it is useful being able to hold meetings with external people, including internationally, on zoom/teams

@SirChenjins

I’d loathe all of collaborative working not to be f2f

It depends how you have to do your collaborative working. Mine used to involve driving all over the region and beyond for meetings that would only last a couple of hours at most - I’d spend so much time driving from home to office to meeting and back to office then onto another meeting then back to office then home and so on and on. Now I can go onto Teams for focused meetings and then go straight back to work. It’s brilliant.

I get it would be fair better in some situations and can see why in your set up

And it’s great if we all get the version we’d like best

For me - two or three days in together is a really good balance

There is going to be a huge pressure shortly to get people back into offices even if on a hybrid basis. As long as our offices have been open I've been going in. Always had the ability to wfh if and when needed but do genuinely think people need to be seen and you got so much more done by being face to face in my experience. Of course if you are introverted and established in your career you won't support a return.

You get so much more done face to face? Surely that depends on the job?
I don't care about being seen. I am not looking for promotion. And if you are its not just about being in the office, but about being at headquarters rather than a small regional office. Being seen in a small regional office does nothing for you.

I agree it is disastrous for a lot of 20-somethings. Ds is upstairs right now wfh. He has not met a single colleague. There are no zoom meetings. If you do not have many friends already it is very isolating. Not even friends - offices generally have some banter: Nigel’s awful shoes/Mary’s smelly lunch/the time the boss had a piece of loo roll stuck on his shoe etc etc etc. It’s about learning to get along with all types of people and age groups.

Some of ds’s friends are indeed on the point of quitting corporate jobs. One doing chartered accountancy training is going berserk as it’s now all online - no auditing trips and meeting the other trainees to make the experience more palatable. Just 9-5 in his bedroom, with files emailed to him.

@RoyalFamilyFan

You get so much more done face to face? Surely that depends on the job? I don't care about being seen. I am not looking for promotion. And if you are its not just about being in the office, but about being at headquarters rather than a small regional office. Being seen in a small regional office does nothing for you.

Not sure who this is to?

But yes it depends on the work being done.

We were working under an extremely flexible hybrid model for a month before they gave the wfh order again.

I think we’ll be told to go back again in February by the government. But in reality, we probably won’t go back in again until March or April.

I prefer wfh.