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Original poster

‘Flexible use of support staff in keeping lessons face to face’

261 replies

Skinnyfrappewithmilk · 03/01/2022 09:08

One of the points made by the education sec for return to school this week.

Are they planning on paying a decent wage for support staff then?! I’m a TA and having to claim UC as my wage is so poor, quite frankly it’s an insult.
I’m so angry reading that…our pay and conditions are already awful, I can’t quite believe the cheek of it.

OP posts:
Andtheyalllookjustthesame · 03/01/2022 15:18

I think the pressures put on teachers during normal times is ridiculous anyway. It's just a massive box ticking/arse covering exercise in bureaucracy and doesn't seem to benefit the teachers or the students. Teaching seems to suck the life out of people, all the teachers I know are stressed all the (term) time and older ones have almost all left the profession.
The obsession with exam results is awful as well, why do we need to keep making them harder? Why do we keep making things more academic? So many other ways to measure a persons success than their grades.

ToastCrumbsOnAPlate · 03/01/2022 15:19

@bobisbored yep. It was this kind of thing that made me leave the job. I too did entire days of teacher cover and kept things ticking over very nicely in the circumstances , I was still a poor substitute for an actual teacher though! It also meant that there was nobody doing my tasks too. Inventions for the most vulnerable kids were left , my phonics group were merged with the next group up meaning that they couldn't access the work. So I did a supply teacher's job for peanuts , then spent the next week catching up on my own workload. Also , whilst I was safe pair of hands the teacher had to go through the kids' books and see if the work had to be redone as I'm not a teacher!

What I'm saying is that I don't think there are any winners in that situation , especially longterm.

MrsHamlet · 03/01/2022 15:20

@EtInTerraPax
I think it "proves" that Blubells was quoting from ofqual, actually.

ldontWanna · 03/01/2022 15:20

It's baby sitting, or crowd control, not high quality face-to-face education.

No. Not high quality, as I said it was ok. But it wasn't fucking babysitting either. I differentiated, I decided how to deliver the lesson, changed things, marked all the books . Afternoon lessons I relied on the long term planning summaries to sort it out. Maths was a scheme, English was done by the teacher or SLT. The expectations were high. There was still book scrutiny happening, subject leaders still assessed the work ,books and surveyed kids. The books were ok, the marking was ok, the work was ok, the kids were ok. I wasn't ok, but hey whatever it takes. It wasn't fucking babysitting or crowd control. It was teaching, even if it was just ok or sub par teaching, because you know... I'm not a teacher.

EtInTerraPax · 03/01/2022 15:24

[quote MrsHamlet]@EtInTerraPax
I think it "proves" that Blubells was quoting from ofqual, actually.[/quote]
And why would anyone other than an astroturfer need to do that on this thread?

HariboMaroon · 03/01/2022 15:26

So there seems to be a lot of outrage at support staff "teaching" kids, when it is already happening an awful lot anyway even without covid. I know many teaching assistants in primary and secondary who now have full teaching responsibility roles. Parents would be shocked if they knew the truth.

MrsHamlet · 03/01/2022 15:28

She was supporting a point she'd previously made about grading.

thecatfromjapan · 03/01/2022 15:31

@bobisbored

I am a TA. My teacher had covid just before Christmas. I covered her absence. My role wasn't covered so I effectively did both my job and hers for the time she was isolating. For no extra money. It's ridiculous.
It's disgraceful.

People who work in schools have extremely high levels of dedication. There's a lot of loyalty in schools.

But that is still terrible .

ChloeDecker · 03/01/2022 15:43

A Level and GCSE Computer Science here.

No content removed and not only that but still have to revise everything for both papers.

This is from the exam board OCR.
For Paper 2, revise everything
For Paper 1, there will be a specification overview provided in February but there could also be content not listed, in the exam, so revise everything.

This is not only unfair on the pupils who picked the subject in good faith, compared with mitigations in other subjects (exams cancelled in Art, for example, just coursework portfolios graded by teachers this year) but I will also be judged Performance Management wise for years to come, including Ofsted checking data in the future.

With the disruption that will occur this term, potential merging of classes, cover teachers, pupils off unwell etc. the exam classes alone are going to be at a disadvantage for my subject, let alone all the other year groups.

Support staff (we don’t have many TAs in our school and I haven’t had a TA in my classroom for years - having a computer in front of a SEND pupil is deemed enough, to save money) covering for me is the least of my worries…

‘Flexible use of support staff in keeping lessons face to face’
DolphinFC · 03/01/2022 15:57

Change the word in the title from 'use' to 'abuse' and you have a fair picture of reality for the last 5 years.

Sirzy · 03/01/2022 16:00

@HariboMaroon

So there seems to be a lot of outrage at support staff "teaching" kids, when it is already happening an awful lot anyway even without covid. I know many teaching assistants in primary and secondary who now have full teaching responsibility roles. Parents would be shocked if they knew the truth.
Which I don’t agree with in general anyway BUT when it’s planned (for PPE etc) then school will be in a much better position to make sure everyone’s needs are met not trying to do two or more jobs at once
itsgettingweird · 03/01/2022 16:10

@ldontWanna

It's baby sitting, or crowd control, not high quality face-to-face education.

No. Not high quality, as I said it was ok. But it wasn't fucking babysitting either. I differentiated, I decided how to deliver the lesson, changed things, marked all the books . Afternoon lessons I relied on the long term planning summaries to sort it out. Maths was a scheme, English was done by the teacher or SLT. The expectations were high. There was still book scrutiny happening, subject leaders still assessed the work ,books and surveyed kids. The books were ok, the marking was ok, the work was ok, the kids were ok. I wasn't ok, but hey whatever it takes. It wasn't fucking babysitting or crowd control. It was teaching, even if it was just ok or sub par teaching, because you know... I'm not a teacher.

Serious question.

Why?

I'll cover classes happily and I'll even plan simple lessons. I'll do the usual commenting on the rim for the pupil/s I've worked with (this is sen Ed so often 1-3 pupils). Classes are 7-9 pupils and planning still requires 3 levels.

But there is absolutely no way and I've drawn the line in the past at being held to scrutiny and observation when I'm covering a teacher and no one is effectively being me in the classroom.

I will be judged on what I'm employed and paid to do. That's it.

Blubells · 03/01/2022 16:13

She was supporting a point she'd previously made about grading.

Yes, thanks for clarifying. I was simply quoting what i understood the plans were for grading in 2022. That grades were still going to be higher in 2022 than before the pandemic. This was before the omicron disruption happened, so perhaps that guidance will be revised and grades kept inflated for another year?

P.s. I have no idea what an astroturfer or a stooge is Confused both of which I was accused of.

user1471509171 · 03/01/2022 16:31

@Headingnorthwoste I agree with your thinking it was the same when I was at school BUT very different now. Classes bigger than 30 as we rightly need to accommodate looked after children. Most TAs are 1.1s in my school not for children with EHCPs (some are) but some look after multiple children that cannot be left alone in school for a large variety of reasons. It is very emotionally draining working with these children 6.5 hours a day. Often being verbally and physically abused daily. We are completely under paid for this already. How much do we have to keep taking on before we say No!

CarrieBlue · 03/01/2022 16:32

grades kept inflated for another year

Grades kept at a level for another year where those who know the students abilities best and who have a range of evidence to support their grade award decision rather than continuing to rely on a single performance under stressful conditions

ldontWanna · 03/01/2022 16:34

@itsgettingweird

1.I live the kids and the job
2.(main reason) I'm a dumbass. Looking back now I can see it clearly and there's no way it's happening again.

  1. It was a bit of a boiling frog situation. At first it was just PPA cover, then while the teacher is doing online lessons/phonecalls, then for meetings, then for whenever the teacher was off and so on. Main reason was no mixing bubbles .
Newyearoldyou · 03/01/2022 16:35

Unfortunately it's support staff who often have to get far closer to the students than teachers do and for far longer often sitting in with the dc so good luck to that!!

itsgettingweird · 03/01/2022 17:06

[quote ldontWanna]@itsgettingweird

1.I live the kids and the job
2.(main reason) I'm a dumbass. Looking back now I can see it clearly and there's no way it's happening again.

  1. It was a bit of a boiling frog situation. At first it was just PPA cover, then while the teacher is doing online lessons/phonecalls, then for meetings, then for whenever the teacher was off and so on. Main reason was no mixing bubbles .[/quote]
Wasn't a dog btw because I've been there and so have some of my colleagues.

My biggest reason is I love the job and want best for pupils.

And I think this is what they've dined out on - good will.

Many moons ago teaching was considered vocational and TAs unqualified and is usually mums looking for a convenient job to fit around raising children.

Except now teachers must be degree standard and Juno through all sorts of CPD and targets to get a pay rise.

TAs need qualifications and also no longer assist but take lead roles and whole classes and again are expected to meet yearly targets for a pay rise.

But they've added more expectation and without adding treating staff as professionals alongside it.

cassgate · 03/01/2022 17:33

TAs need qualifications and also no longer assist but take lead roles and whole classes and again are expected to meet yearly targets for a pay rise.

Except of course if you are at the top of the pay scale you won’t even get a pay rise. I haven’t had a pay rise in 3 years because of this. Despite, meeting and exceeding my targets every year. One year there was enough money and I was given a small bonus for exceeding expectations. It amounted to about £50.

liveforsummer · 03/01/2022 17:53

Im a TA I don't have any specific TA qualifications although do have some old relevant childcare ones. Lots of my colleagues don't though and many are people who want experience to go on to do teaching but currently have no qualifications or experience.

toomuchlaundry · 03/01/2022 17:56

@cassgate what qualifications are you referring to?

cassgate · 03/01/2022 18:15

It was a previous poster that mentioned qualifications. I have a level 3 diploma in supporting teaching and learning which I funded out of my own money some years ago. I am now at the top of the level 3 pay scale so haven’t had any pay rises in 3 years. My school won’t pay me level 4 unless I complete HLTA training. Problem with that is that I would then be covering teacher’s PPA instead and would be expected to plan, mark and assess some subject areas for the classes I cover. The difference in pay of about £30 per month just isn’t worth it.

Bagadverts · 03/01/2022 18:30

I have no skin in the game as no children and not working in education or another key worker role. I can wfh without it affecting my job and I have a good employer.

I agree with comments here that sacrifices have mostly been expected from those in the public sector and mostly lower paid private sector employees. Key workers.
Extra hours, redeployment, working at high risk of getting Covid.

It is low income and vulnerable that will suffer most. Children who need 1:1 or at risk.

I so wish the government would listen to professionals in every sphere. Then be honest. Be honest about the state of the health service and social care and what will not be happening. Be honest and what keeping school open means, that it may not include learning. Ofsted should stop. Parents should be able to home educate/look after DC at home (no work set) if the alternative is childminding at school without loss of place or problems with absence.

Thank you to all those working in the education sector. Whether I have DC or not you are educating or supporting education of what will be my plumber/nurse/shop assistant in the future.

Sunshinedreaming2022 · 03/01/2022 19:52

“My” school has lost so much support staff in the last 6months. Half of the TAs have left and what once was a job as rare and desirable as gold dust, now we have no one applying. And those that do, often don’t even show up for the interview. It is dire. This last 18 months had broken so many of us. I left at Christmas.
Good luck to anyone returning tomorrow.

liveforsummer · 03/01/2022 20:05

@Sunshinedreaming2022 we struggle to recruit too. Our school is in a very deprived estate so doesn't help applications but the main issue is the length of time it takes. Last time we recruited 5 only 2 turned up but he time the dbs were cleared several weeks later. People had found alternative jobs while waiting In the mean time 2 had left hating the job as so short staffed then instead of doing the general roles the new starts were employed for they are chucked in the deep end in the short staffed team with highly challenging kids doing 1:1 to replace the ones that left.