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Masks in classrooms secondary

517 replies

Hummmmming · 01/01/2022 23:01

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/01/schools-in-england-told-wear-masks-in-class-as-fears-mount-of-omicron-surge?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Until the 26th of January

OP posts:
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10
Happypootler · 02/01/2022 19:29

piggy if modern teacher is an insult I'll take it... I constantly wander up and down, helping/ questioning/ supporting...works for me

I have been teaching 20 years.

Chessie678 · 02/01/2022 19:30

I think the impact on hearing impaired students is treated as a niche issue which can be resolved with clear masks etc. but it's really not.

Around 2% of children have diagnosable hearing impairment. But there is a spectrum of hearing loss and many children will have below average hearing which isn't at the level of being diagnosable or hasn't yet been diagnosed (given that hearing isn't routinely tested). I am in this category and struggle to hear people with masks. It's partly about the inability to see someone's face but also the muffling. Looser thinner masks make it easier to hear someone but are also essentially pointless.

A lot of people with normal hearing seem to struggle to hear people speaking with a mask on, even in one to one interactions where they are close to someone. I'm frequently misheard by staff in shops etc. while wearing a mask.

In an environment where a main purpose of being there is to hear someone speak and where following the complexities of what they are saying is important, masks are going to be highly detrimental for many students.

Teachers may not necessarily realise. I would have sat quietly in a class with a mask on if I had been a student now but wouldn't have heard half of what was being said.

And there is very limited reason to think that cloth masks are going to significantly reduce staff or student absence due to covid. There does not appear to have been a reduction in cases in Scotland compared to England despite the difference in mask rules. The best studies on this suggest that cloth masks are around 7% effective (and those studies have been criticised for the way they analysed the data anyway). We know that omicron is more infectious so shouldn't expect masks to work as well, particularly over a long time period. We know that many classrooms are not well ventilated. So you have pupils sitting next to each other for around 6 hours breathing in the same air. It seems unlikely that masks would be the difference between catching omicron or not in those circumstances.

I just can't see that the cost benefit is there. It seems to be about being seen to do something and, in some quarters, a belief that because there is no downside to masks, we might as well try them in case they work a bit. There's an emotive argument about "protecting" children and teachers but that isn't the intention of the policy anymore because it is accepted that people will eventually be exposed to covid in any case - no one expects wearing a mask to prevent eventual infection just possibly to slow it down a bit.

Piggywaspushed · 02/01/2022 19:34

@Happypootler

piggy if modern teacher is an insult I'll take it... I constantly wander up and down, helping/ questioning/ supporting...works for me

I have been teaching 20 years.

I've done 25. Surely, with your experience, you have the skills to adapt?
PAFMO · 02/01/2022 20:01

@Chessie678

I think the impact on hearing impaired students is treated as a niche issue which can be resolved with clear masks etc. but it's really not.

Around 2% of children have diagnosable hearing impairment. But there is a spectrum of hearing loss and many children will have below average hearing which isn't at the level of being diagnosable or hasn't yet been diagnosed (given that hearing isn't routinely tested). I am in this category and struggle to hear people with masks. It's partly about the inability to see someone's face but also the muffling. Looser thinner masks make it easier to hear someone but are also essentially pointless.

A lot of people with normal hearing seem to struggle to hear people speaking with a mask on, even in one to one interactions where they are close to someone. I'm frequently misheard by staff in shops etc. while wearing a mask.

In an environment where a main purpose of being there is to hear someone speak and where following the complexities of what they are saying is important, masks are going to be highly detrimental for many students.

Teachers may not necessarily realise. I would have sat quietly in a class with a mask on if I had been a student now but wouldn't have heard half of what was being said.

And there is very limited reason to think that cloth masks are going to significantly reduce staff or student absence due to covid. There does not appear to have been a reduction in cases in Scotland compared to England despite the difference in mask rules. The best studies on this suggest that cloth masks are around 7% effective (and those studies have been criticised for the way they analysed the data anyway). We know that omicron is more infectious so shouldn't expect masks to work as well, particularly over a long time period. We know that many classrooms are not well ventilated. So you have pupils sitting next to each other for around 6 hours breathing in the same air. It seems unlikely that masks would be the difference between catching omicron or not in those circumstances.

I just can't see that the cost benefit is there. It seems to be about being seen to do something and, in some quarters, a belief that because there is no downside to masks, we might as well try them in case they work a bit. There's an emotive argument about "protecting" children and teachers but that isn't the intention of the policy anymore because it is accepted that people will eventually be exposed to covid in any case - no one expects wearing a mask to prevent eventual infection just possibly to slow it down a bit.

You talk as though all of us who are teachers have never come across a student with any kind of additional needs and are incapable of adapting our own methodology and behaviour accordingly.

I'm still a classroom teacher but also spend a lot of time teacher training these days. Funnily enough, invisible disabilities and hearing impairment (as opposed to deafness) at varying levels, is something we manage to deal with.

Hercisback · 02/01/2022 20:04

@chessie678 I was an (undiagnosed) hearing impaired teacher at the start of the pandemic. I have coped fine enough. Not perfectly but have got through it. Students remove masks if I can't hear. I teach mask less at the front.

kittensinthekitchen · 02/01/2022 20:09

@Whitefire

Ah, got you. I read your post as a standalone comment that was suggesting this was a rule coming in.

borntobequiet · 02/01/2022 20:12

@Whitefire

I'm pleased that ds's school is supportive, both of him not wearing a mask and also not doing LFT's, unless of course posters think it is acceptable for two to be pinning him down whilst another does the test, twice a week.
Of course we think that. We say so all the time.
borntobequiet · 02/01/2022 20:13

other teacher of hearing impaired students has in situations where masks have been obligatory

Such as where?

Happypootler · 02/01/2022 20:57

Yes it is possible to cope or adapt teaching with masks. But when posters minimise mask wearing as being easy or irrelevant in school, I have to state that it is not. IMO, it is detrimental to learning, engagement and teaching. I don't know any colleagues IRL who don't think this, perhaps it depends on your subject and style.

Piggywaspushed · 02/01/2022 21:01

You know teachers are being suggested not to wear them happy?

BiggerBoat1 · 03/01/2022 11:35

In my school, the teachers do not wear them - unless walking round the classroom - but the children do. Works well. I cannot imagine teaching through a mask.

dratsnotyouagain · 03/01/2022 12:35

Anyone worried about nursery children going on. The hospitalisation numbers for under 5s are worrying me and my toddler has been off sick with colds almost twice a month for a few days at a time. I'm sure work are losing patience with me,being able to hear him in the background - so keeping him off nursery until it feels safer may not go so well for me, but I'm nervous. Glad secondaries are getting mask mandates and vaccinations soon but it's the under 5s worrying me. No real possible mitigation but only if nurseries are officially closed would work have to accept my toddler is home with me. Right now they can insist I have childcare.

For context he has mild asthma but is not on the shielding list and we have just been told to take extra precautions. Is anyone else worried about sending their toddlers to nursery

SarahJessicaParker1 · 03/01/2022 13:34

I have a preschooler. I am not overly worried about sending him in. I think keeping him at home would definitely be to his detriment, whereas covid most likely would be OK. He is not asthmatic though AFAIK. My older one is though, mildly.

We also went to soft play today and are off to a big, outdoor play area now. They need exercise more than shielding I think, unless they are CEV.

I also work in hospitality and am exposed to it all the time. If dh and I both WFH, I think I'd feel a bit more worried about school!

Scottishskifun · 03/01/2022 13:43

@dratsnotyouagain the hospital numbers for other respiratory illnesses are way higher in the under 5s then they are for covid. It's partly due to lack of exposure and building a immune system to these.

My DS was far far sicker with bronchitis then he was with covid! I am more concerned about dealing with chickenpox with him tbh! Covid he slept a extra hour that was it. Many friends have had similar experiences even those with asthma and omicron is showing not to go as deep into the lungs as delta or alpha. All of which is reassuring.

I was very nervous before he got it at how ill he would be.....he wasn't turns out I should have been more worried about how ill I would be (it was prior to vaccination and alpha we had).

RichTeaRichTea · 03/01/2022 13:43

Two preschoolers - I’m not worried but my husband is a teacher and I’m an HCP so there isn’t much I can do about exposure anyway. We can’t do our jobs without childcare and if I tried to my MH wouldn’t take it.

dratsnotyouagain · 03/01/2022 13:54

Thank you. You are definitely right about him needing nursery. He just turned 3 and has a speech delay. He has.come leaps and bounds since starting nursery. I cannot give him full attention like they do at nursery while working. It is really important for his development as he is behind on some things right now. I feel better sounding off with someone that I am not making a mistake.

Staying at home will definitely be to his detriment and I want him to benefit as much as possible from nursery. Thank you for your insight.

I sincerely hope the situation becomes better for us all especially teachers and pupils.

shortterm · 03/01/2022 14:13

Totally happy with masks in schools.

Why haven't schools worked out that bringing everyone in for the LFT at the start of term will be a cause of mass tranmission?

Surely the positive cases will then be gagging and aspirating on their LFT swab in the school hall/gym rather than in the seclusion of their own home?

Surely it would reduce mass transmission for pupils to take their start-of-term LFT at home?

A minority won't do it, but then that minority are going to in school anyway, either without a home LFT or to take their school-based LFT or not take their school-based LFT.

It is better for the majority of pupils to take the LFT at home.

Schools, and now the government, insisting this testing takes place in an environment with hundreds and thousands of other pupils (but don't worry the window is open) will going to lead to so many unnecessary cases.

MrsHamlet · 03/01/2022 14:17

Why haven't schools worked out that bringing everyone in for the LFT at the start of term will be a cause of mass tranmission?
We're doing it this way because it's what we have been told to do by the dfe.

shortterm · 03/01/2022 14:25

We're doing it this way because it's what we have been told to do by the dfe

No, my DC's school announced this in mid-December.

I know some schools are having to react to the government decision yesterday, but some were going to do this anyway (stupid IMVHO, based on medical and scientific facts regarding virus transmission and the lessons that should have been learnt from last year)

MrsHamlet · 03/01/2022 14:53

@shortterm

We're doing it this way because it's what we have been told to do by the dfe

No, my DC's school announced this in mid-December.

I know some schools are having to react to the government decision yesterday, but some were going to do this anyway (stupid IMVHO, based on medical and scientific facts regarding virus transmission and the lessons that should have been learnt from last year)

We were told in December that we had to test on site. Which is why we planned it this way. We wrote to the parents and told them before the end of term and they'll get a text reminder today.
shortterm · 03/01/2022 15:11

Ah, OK. The school didn't say they had been told to do this when they informed us in mid-December. I will retract my embittered judgement and assume they were told to do this.

Still would be better/safer/sounder in scientific and medical fact to test at home and offer in-school testing to those who can't get hold of a test for home testing, i.e. preference for testing at home where infection can be identified before the infected pupils gets the bus, goes to tutor time, waits in line, sneezes in the school hall when the swab goes up their nose....

MrsHamlet · 03/01/2022 15:17

I suggested on another thread that the DFE should adopt the tagline "haven't realised". That seems appropriate here too.

walksen · 03/01/2022 15:30

"Why haven't schools worked out that bringing everyone in for the LFT at the start of term will be a cause of mass tranmission?"

As a pp said this is DfE guidance.
It is well established that accuracy of tests is lower when people doing them aren't trained.
Infection control measures are well established from when SD was still in for etc
At least half of pupils don't do the test at all anyway.

As regards transmission, haven't you worked out yet that cramming a 1000 people in a building 33 to a room for hours on end is always going to cause mass transmission?

DonGray · 03/01/2022 15:32

The kids still administer their own tests

shortterm · 03/01/2022 15:44

The fact that LFTs in school is a less good idea than LFTs at home still remains, no matter whose idea it is.

The alternative to LFTs in school is not no LFTs.

I will test my DC before they go into school and log the result. I would rather they then didn't have to sit in a room where potentially infectious people stuck swabs in their noses (causing them to potentially sneeze) and maybe also throats depending on LFT type (causing them to gag).

The best time to identify infectious pupils is not when they are already in school. It is before they attend school.