For those that want one, please remember this problem with lockdowns!

[Thurstyy]

Not economic or social, but the fact that it is really not good that we are all shut away not catching the usual viruses OTHER than Covid.

My son has been hospitalised 3 times this year with viruses which are not Covid. The nurses and doctors in the children's ward at the hospital told me they were seeing much more of it this year, with more severe cases of OTHER normal viruses because people were prevented from mixing so much last year. When he had bronchiolitis in Sept the nurse who came to see him at home said they were being prepared for the worst RSV season because of this and barely anyone knows or talks about it.

The typical yearly bugs have made my son so so much more poorly than Covid ever did when he had that and it could well be because his immune system was not given the chance last year to properly build up against them.

It is not good for us to live in a sterile environment.

There are other problems caused by only considering Covid and I'm sick of people caring about nothing else.

@Thurstyy

Course not that's not what I said. The of or with covid is old now and explained in media several times

No, but @rrhuth called me one for saying that. That's what I was replying to in the post you quoted...

'with not of' (deaths) and 'with not for' (admissions) are questions associated with covid denial. Covid denial is not only the total denial that covid exists, but also the denial of its impacts on both individuals and society.

I did not call you a covid denier, I said that phrase is a covid denial trope.

Everyone accepts incidental covid is appearing in the stats.

@Thurstyy - Oh OK - sorry my mistake - didn't read back far enough! Now I have, I can see that we both agree that it would be nice if the hospital figures could be presented a bit more transparently!

*with not of' (deaths) and 'with not for' (admissions) are questions associated with covid denial. Covid denial is not only the total denial that covid exists, but also the denial of its impacts on both individuals and society.

I did not call you a covid denier, I said that phrase is a covid denial trope.*

Sorry but I don't really understand why wanting to talk about whether people are being hospitalised of or with Covid would be associated with Covid denial. It's a really important consideration when deciding what mitigation measures need to be taken surely? It seems like a silly phrase that has been invented to shut down debate. I would not like to think that we'd be going into lockdown based on unreliable or untrue figures. Would you?

I would not like to think that we'd be going into lockdown based on unreliable or untrue figures. Would you?

This makes no sense though, if you stop and think about it.

Do you imagine the doctors are lying to the advisers, the advisers are lying to the government, or the government are lying to the public? Are you suggesting somewhere there is a conspiracy, or just a nationwide error?

How would we go into a lockdown based on untrue figures, unless there were a conspiracy? You can't really think that the whole health establishment has been miscounting all this time, and some clever questions on MN have discovered this.

@Rruth - I think the figures have been misrepresented to the public certainly and that you'd have to be quite naive to believe otherwise. When you look at the graphs that were presented to get us to accept previous lockdowns you can see the government are not too fussed about misrepresenting data when it suits their agenda. What I'm interested in is why you seem so keen to lockdown. Are you really not aware of the huge negative impact it has?

The impact of lockdowns on other illnesses/ potential illnesses has been huge. The numbers of people who have not been treated or had treatment delayed has seen deaths and will no doubt continue to see deaths - from a younger age group. The use of lockdown to protect the elderly has created a whole group of vunerable people - not just with physical illnesses but who have developed poor mental health. This is time bomb which will continue to develop due to the last two years. Its time we allowed society to get back to normal and ignore this constant call for lockdowns and restrictions

@twelly not to mention a lack of intervention by social services which has had a catastrophic effect on abused children.

[quote nojudgementhere]@Rruth - I think the figures have been misrepresented to the public certainly and that you'd have to be quite naive to believe otherwise. When you look at the graphs that were presented to get us to accept previous lockdowns you can see the government are not too fussed about misrepresenting data when it suits their agenda. What I'm interested in is why you seem so keen to lockdown. Are you really not aware of the huge negative impact it has?[/quote]
So your view is the government is misrepresenting the data to justify a lockdown - a conspiracy theory.

Do you also have an explanation as to why they want a lockdown if not needed for health reasons?

I am not keen to lockdown - you've invented that. I do however think the stats are broadly accurate.

I agree but also many other damaging effects of lockdowns

@Rruth - That's not what I said at all! I get the feeling you just like throwing slurs like 'conspiracy theory' and 'covid denier' around to shut people down. I think if they do decide to lockdown they will do it because the health service is overwhelmed. The reason it is overwhelmed is not as clear cut as you're making out though, which is why I think it's important people look at why we are in the state we are in. The government have had nearly two years now to try to improve the NHS. What went wrong? If the stats are correct, and we have less Covid patients in hospital at the moment than at the peak, then why can they still not cope? There are around 25,000 staff off ill or isolating at the moment so should they be looking at reducing the isolation period to help sort this out? Also, how are they planning to fill the gaps when approximately 100,000 staff leave because of the mandate in April and they become even more short staffed? I think it's important to look at and talk about these things and that people should be free to do so without being called names!

I am not calling you a name @nojudgementhere - but this When you look at the graphs that were presented to get us to accept previous lockdowns you can see the government are not too fussed about misrepresenting data when it suits their agenda is a conspiracy theory.

Why do you think the data was being misrepresented? What was the government aim in your opinion?

I don't want to shut anyone down btw, people can say what they like.

@Lifeisnteasy childrens services have been scandalously underfunded for years but especially so with austerity. Why does it only bother you now ?

Exactly @nojudgementhere - by sitting back & being fine with the government curtailing our civil liberties, we are allowing them to continue underfunding our public services at the cost of our freedom. It’s a game of who blinks first.

[quote Likkleredridinghood]@Lifeisnteasy childrens services have been scandalously underfunded for years but especially so with austerity. Why does it only bother you now ? [/quote]
Who said it only bothers me now?

I’m a teacher and feel like I have had a cold / sore throat / headaches since October on and off! Good job we do weekly lateral flows otherwise I would have been self isolating permanently! Absence rates in pupils is through the roof this year also.

My partner is a nurse on an oncology ward. The knock on effect of late diagnosis / shortages is and will continue to be having a devastating effect.

It's total rubbish that not being exposed to cold viruses for a few months during lockdown would be the cause of your son's vulnerability to viruses this year, OP. If anything has made him vulnerable it's probably the infections themselves, perhaps including COVID.

I have always avoided colds and other infections but when I do get one (about once every two years) it's no worse than anyone else's.

I think lockdowns (which were needed when we've had them pre-vaccines) have stored up a lot of health problems later down the line which will in turn impact hospitals.

@Flyonawalk

I agree with you OP. I find it sad that other health issues are not given notice.

We are starting to see the effects of lockdowns - a backlog of cancer patients for one, rising (non-covid) mortality in under 65s, greatly increasing inflation. Many people who supported lockdowns will find themselves much poorer over coming years.

I can see life expectancy dropping over the next few years, due to the impact of the pandemic, after rising and rising for a generation.

The vaccines have been a lifesafer but the damage has been done for so many.

@User135644

I think lockdowns (which were needed when we've had them pre-vaccines) have stored up a lot of health problems later down the line which will in turn impact hospitals.

The thing is, a virus and it’s impact can be quantified into neat numbers - number of infections, number of deaths etc.

It’s impossible to quantify the effects of lockdown on mental health, the individual, other public services, physical health due to delayed appointments etc, relationship issues (not just not being able to see people, but couples forced together for years when they’re used to a healthy relationship with time apart), domestic violence… and on and on.

So it’s easy for posters who believe in restrictions as a default reaction to rising cases to use the ‘covid numbers’ as some kind of all-justifying trump card, because we cannot in turn quantify the damage lockdown has caused & prove it is far greater.

I know of 1 person who has sadly died from covid. I also know of 1 young person who has committed suicide, whose family attribute it to his isolation and lack of mental health support due to the lockdowns. I also know of at least 3 people who are now on antidepressants directly due to the impact COVID has had on their lives - these were happy, mentally healthy people previously.

I hope that isn’t representative of the population as a whole, but I fear it may be.

@Lifeisnteasy It all adds up. Even alcohol use went up sharply for a lot of people during the lockdowns, despite the pubs being shut. That's an added burden on physical (liver) and mental health (alcohol is a depressant). A lot of people were using it as a crutch and self-medication.

Exactly delladonna - its likely having viruses affects you especially covid.
As they deplete vitamins (maybe d and iron etc) as you need to make antibodies.
We havent been more ill. More than last year a little.
Last year sept - dec 1 cold cough
This year 2 (one probably flu vax reaction)

But - weve not been going to restaurants/pubs soft play cinema etc. Just 2 kids at school and clubs
So actually less viruses than precovid where we are all usually ill all winter.
It may be that kids have been off 2 days say at start of their coughs etc.
So i would sugfest your issue may be making up for last year by doing loads this year.
Or age of dc as mine were awful at 3-4 with uti/coughs/ear infections.
Things like swimming and nursery.

If you had say a 3 year old or 4 then they may not have been exposed to stuff precovid so yes just getting those viruses.
Things like cp hasnt gone through dc2 class. Unlike when dc1 was in yrr. But we've vaccinated against it anyway.
Loads and loads of kids have been off with covid and likely now to get omicron.
If yours has been more ill consider ---what you have been doing /
get multivitamin
Exercise
Diet

Also other countries return pcrs quicker so kids would miss less school.

@rrhuth

I am not calling you a name *@nojudgementhere* - but this When you look at the graphs that were presented to get us to accept previous lockdowns you can see the government are not too fussed about misrepresenting data when it suits their agenda is a conspiracy theory.

Why do you think the data was being misrepresented? What was the government aim in your opinion?

I don't know why they misrepresented data but it's a well-known fact that they did. Link below.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54831334

I would like this misuse of figures to stop and for the government/scientists to be more honest and transparent. I don't think that makes me a conspiracy theorist or particularly unusual.

The only reason I would imagine they are being less than open about how many patients have been hospitalised with or of Covid is because they would probably like the public to believe that lockdowns are inevitable rather than something that might be avoided if we really look into why the NHS is currently failing to cope.

I don't think lockdowns are a viable solution in the longterm. Some people sail through them but others really suffer, losing jobs, homes, businesses and having their mental health destroyed. They should certainly not be introduced lightly and if they are based on figures then these figures should be scrutinised and proved to be true before we act. No more mad Neil Ferguson models for example!

It's just not worth it. On so many levels.

In my area viral rates among children are down dramatically.

My own child’s return to school from a year long lockdown has been fantastic. Normally she misses a ridiculous amount of school because she has severe asthma and every tiny virus makes her extremely ill. We end up at the hospital over and over. We were dreading her return to school because the asthma also causes a chronic cough, which in the Covid era is a huge problem. She hasn’t been sick once this entire school year. Not so much as the tiniest cold. Her school requires masks, as do all the schools in the area. There is also a cultural shift into staying home when you have any symptoms. It’s been a huge blessing for medically fragile kids.