Do you think schools will return as normal in January?

[LucozadeGirl]

Just that really.

ANY cold symptoms at all and not to come in until negative test supplied, if anyone in school tests positive then whole class including teacher must get a PCR test and cannot return to school without forwarding the negative test to school, and if someone at hone has covid child must not come in for 10 days

Who’s paying for all these tests? The government? School?

Utterly ridiculous waste of tax payers money. If they want to go beyond government guidelines then they need to pay privately for tests.

Here only travel and hospital admissions have PCR tests the rest are reported via LFT.

I suspect UK government will drop the PCR testing as well due to the shear number of people taking the mick, and getting PCR for their own purposes and not the purpose it’s meant for.

@TerfetyTERF
Why do teachers feel they are more at risk than the rest of us?

It’s most likely due to the fact that ONS statistics continually state that education staff are more likely to test positive than any other working adult (ONS’s words not mine) and school-aged children and adults aged around 40 to 50 years continued to be more likely to test positive than other ages. Of course, with people not currently able to get PCR tests, who knows how next week will pan out.

So if we want school children to continue receiving good quality face to face education, we need to stop putting fingers in ears and do more to enable fewer pupils and education staff testing positive or isolating, by putting in measures we now know work for an airborne virus. I’m doing my bit because I have just bought my own HEPA filter machine for my classroom (which last term, would daily reach 2000ppm on a CO2 monitor that the DforE didn’t provide otherwise I would still be waiting) even with windows open because 34 computers and 35 people in the room is obviously not a good combination for good air quality). This is because I am desperate to do what I can to still teach face to face but unless the DforE pull their finger out and families are able to physically get teats in the first place, I am on a hiding to nothing on my own.
So a polite request to certain posters or name changers to be more mindful of what they post. We all want young people to be educated and feel safe.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveycharacteristicsofpeopletestingpositiveforcovid19uk/16december2021

@Ninja11

I won't be sending mine back. Primary schools have no measures and it's completely mad that we aren't trying to prevent this from infecting the kids at all or mutating further. I would feel much safer if schools had more protection and safety measures but that seems unlikely.

Why do you keep name changing to post the same thing under different names?

For weeks in outr area the highest in infection rate was in the 5 to 11s. This only changed on the holidays.
I guess it will be back up in that age range sonce schools return. My dd3 school has only had a few cases so far but I can see that changing very soon.

My parents would never want my children to compromise their education to protect them. Either we’ll meet outside or we’ll test

So you’ll test everyone prior to meeting your parents and stay outside? Yet you’ll send your unvaccinated children into a pool of Covid on a daily basis, with hundreds of other children with no mitigations?

It’s not the parents that need protection here is it?

@BluebellsGreenbells

My parents would never want my children to compromise their education to protect them. Either we’ll meet outside or we’ll test

So you’ll test everyone prior to meeting your parents and stay outside? Yet you’ll send your unvaccinated children into a pool of Covid on a daily basis, with hundreds of other children with no mitigations?

It’s not the parents that need protection here is it?

Covid isn't dangerous for the vast majority of kids. My DS had it in summer and you wouldn't even have known. Most of us are happy to take the very tiny risk to ensure our children are getting the education they need. Anyone who isn't, can home school.

@Ninja11

I won't be sending mine back. Primary schools have no measures and it's completely mad that we aren't trying to prevent this from infecting the kids at all or mutating further. I would feel much safer if schools had more protection and safety measures but that seems unlikely.

You may "feel" safer, but some air filters and masks aren't ultimately going to stop Omicron. Unless your child is CEV and immuno-compromised, the risk is very low... 3/4s of school aged children have had Covid now!

Pinkyxx
It matters enormously whether the schools go back remotely or in person, what an absurd thing to say! Yes there will be sickness, the same as all GPs at my small local GP practice are off sick, and two local shops are shut due to sickness. Then they will reopen! It reads as though you want indefinite online school rather than closing due to sickness when there is staff shortage like the rest of society?

swallowedAFly certainly I care about vulnerable kids all the time. Taking away their safe place in school in that first lockdown was horrendous. I have plenty to say and do about such children the rest of the time. I most certainly am not using them to have schools open for my kids in the nasty manner you are suggesting. I imagine most decent human beings feel and do the same as me.

@BluebellsGreenbells

My parents would never want my children to compromise their education to protect them. Either we’ll meet outside or we’ll test

So you’ll test everyone prior to meeting your parents and stay outside? Yet you’ll send your unvaccinated children into a pool of Covid on a daily basis, with hundreds of other children with no mitigations?

It’s not the parents that need protection here is it?

Yes it is- the risk to children is tiny

Ds's school was fully open during both lockdowns so I can't see that changing in January. The school did shut for a few weeks at one point due to an outbreak/ staffing issues but that happened outside of lockdown and could happen at any point.

For some children - school is the safest place for them to be in the majority of circumstances

For some children - school is one of the biggest drivers of their mental health problems, and they did better with remote learning

For some children - school is normally fine, but feels scary when they can't see Covid safety measures because they are afraid of Covid (maybe have CEV family members)

@milkysmum

We had an email from ds primary yesterday to say as far as they know they will be opening, but that the current government guidance is not sufficient to keep everyone safe. From new year they will be introducing their own tighter restrictions that include twice weekly LFT testing for everyone, PCR required for ANY cold symptoms at all and not to come in until negative test supplied, if anyone in school tests positive then whole class including teacher must get a PCR test and cannot return to school without forwarding the negative test to school, and if someone at hone has covid child must not come in for 10 days.

Even the school's stricter protocols won't keep everyone "safe". It's disingenuous to believe they will be able to keep Covid from spreading. These measures will only increase the disruption, not reduce it, and ultimately won't stop any infections. It's time we accepted that we can't hide from it.

"PCR required for ANY cold symptoms at all and not to come in until negative test supplied"

The PCR testing system doesn't allow for that. How is the testing going to be done?

@DigitalGhost, those are fairly standard things that a lot of schools do and yet might still have had outbreaks.
It's more due to luck than judgement if a school has escaped. And all bets are off for the next half term at least.

@0ncloud9

Our children need to be home educated during this period. Schools do not have sufficient, if any, mitigations in place (through no fault of their own) and attendance has driven this wave. The consequences of this virus are far too severe for many for the government to be complacent any longer.

Do you mean your children?

Because my children need to be in school!

I would feel much safer if schools had more protection and safety measures but that seems unlikely

The omicron virus is very transmissible. Any 'safety' measures won't really make a difference. This virus can't be 'controlled' imo.

Teachers and the vulnerable are vaccinated. Kids generally get covid mildly or asymptomatically. It might actually be good for their immune systems - it gives them some protection of further infection.

Not sure it matters much whether they are back like normal or online,

Are you serious?

I don't even know where to begin to describe the differences and the negative impact to many children of not being in school...!

@0ncloud9

Our children need to be home educated during this period. Schools do not have sufficient, if any, mitigations in place (through no fault of their own) and attendance has driven this wave. The consequences of this virus are far too severe for many for the government to be complacent any longer.

And what happens when schools go back? All you're doing is delaying things!

Those that think that with just bit more
effort, more masks, more testing, more isolation and more air filters, that we can make schools safe from Covid are deluded. Those measures may slow the spread, it won't stop it...not with Omicron at least. All you're doing is stringing out disruption over a longer period and ultimately putting the vulnerable at more risk.

At least if we allowed this wave to blow through they could make a decision to hunker down for a month or so.... That's much more difficult when the same risk is deliberately spread out over a longer period.

There may be a case for more restrictions to enable health and other critical services to function, if the situation requires it, but closing schools to keep them "safe" is a futile and counterproductive exercise that would be done just to help some people "feel" safer.

Even the school's stricter protocols won't keep everyone "safe". It's disingenuous to believe they will be able to keep Covid from spreading.

I agree with this. My son was wearing masks in lessons in school, driving rather than taking the tube to school, was 6 weeks after his second vaccination (so should have had decent immunity), wasn't socialising outside school and still caught covid just before Christmas. Omicron has a certain inevitability in terms of catching it.

@swallowedAfly

Does anyone care about vulnerable kids outside the hours of 8.30am and 3.30pm? I see they're being bandied about as a useful argument by some again.

Child is in an abusive or otherwise dangerous home - Us4Them reaction - all fine so long as school is open as normal No one going to campaign for sorting out social services, children's services, foster places etc? Nah, course not. They're just useful for dressing up your argument with a bit of faux virtue.

👍👏 EXACTLY!!! Perfectly put.

@swallowedAfly

Does anyone care about vulnerable kids outside the hours of 8.30am and 3.30pm? I see they're being bandied about as a useful argument by some again.

Child is in an abusive or otherwise dangerous home - Us4Them reaction - all fine so long as school is open as normal No one going to campaign for sorting out social services, children's services, foster places etc? Nah, course not. They're just useful for dressing up your argument with a bit of faux virtue.

I agree

But surely it's still better for vulnerable children to be in school than not ?

I don't see how this argument implies that schools should not reopen? Am I missing something?

Of coarse you’re missing something

Kids who aren’t fed - school problem rather than social services?
Kids in violent home - school issue rather than social services?
Kids homeless - oh yes - school issue

Stricter protocols will reduce viral load and viral load is directly related to severity of disease.

So it'll keep kids (and teachers) out of hospital and mean they recover more quickly and can return to school and work sooner - I think that's worth it.

Maybe we shouldn't bother with fire safety or safeguarding in school, or speed limits around schools because none of those things completely eliminate all risk either.

Let's get rid of all the railings on stairways too while we're at it - they don't completely prevent falls so what's the point?

It's called mitigation and not elimination for a reason.

I’m not sure calling people deluded ever had any merit in a debate @treeflowercat but seeing as Boris clearly agrees with you, what do you think should be put in place whilst the virus rips through everyone: for the inevitable staff absence, pupils at home missing school who catch it and the long term issues of mental health or complications from the virus?
The DforE have only really managed a few hundred sign ups to their Tory chosen agencies for ex teachers and most schools won’t be able to afford the high agency fees in the first place and those agencies are struggling to push through DBS checks in time, for example.

When posters talk about mitigations, the knock on effect of not having them needs to be dealt with too. The likes of Us4Them and some posters on Mumsnet, for example, always go very quiet on this issue…