up to 90% in hospital ICU are unboostered.

[EleonorBronte]

Last week the report said most of those in ICU were unvaccinated.
Seems like a drastic turnaround.
So double vaxxed people make up to 90% of those in ICU beds? All of a sudden?

Interested in people's thoughts on this manner of reporting. It's ok to urge people to get boosters but this seems off.

On closer research, it seems the majority in ICU are actually unvaxxed, so why this headline?

Article by an ICU anaesthetist.

In my career I have treated hundreds of patients who are in hospital because of choices they have made: smokers, skiers injured on the slopes, along with patients who have inserted various objects into orifices not intended for the purpose. I have never felt judgemental. I understand it is their right to choose, and while I may not agree with their choices, my job is to treat them with compassion, but not judgement. I have never found that difficult.

Until now. I am struggling to understand why patients decide not to get the covid vaccine. I see patient after patient on the labour ward, in emergency theatre, and in intensive care who have chosen not to have the vaccine. The reasons vary—from worry about long term effects, through fertility, to inaccurate ideas about microchips and government surveillance.

Almost exclusively those needing intensive care or dying with covid are young, healthy, and unvaccinated. Only a tiny proportion are vaccinated vulnerable patients with other underlying health conditions, or are partially vaccinated. This despite scientific research and real-world evidence showing that vaccination works. Vaccination offers us the sole opportunity to avoid further lockdowns and lead relatively normal lives. I find these self-destructive decisions incomprehensible.
There is also the question of free riding. The unvaccinated enjoy the benefits—social freedoms and much reduced risk of covid infection—because the majority of adults, and now adolescents, choose to take the vaccine.
A small number who get sick need our care. Some need to come to intensive care, or have their babies delivered early as they are too sick to remain pregnant. They require huge resources—the average stay in intensive care is two weeks, many stay for months, and some do not survive.

www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n3152.short?rss=1

@Woowoe is correct quoting 48% number and @UnmentionedElephantDildo you are misquoting the ICNARC report as the numbers you have used are for period of 7 months (May to Nov).
So to surmise all those scare stories on the media are lies.

The 48% figure is in the discussion of the methodology, and his they eliminate the confounder of the varying level of the vaccination in the population. It is not a reduction in the proportion, it is a fall in the numbers, across the same period as I give the actual numbers for.

There has been what I can now only conclude is a deliberate effort, across several threads now, to misrepresent what that 48% figure refers to.

48% is extremely high though given this 48% comes from 10% of the population

@UnmentionedElephantDildo you are talking nonsense again, let me quote you what the ICNARC paper is saying:
"The percentage of patients admitted to critical care with confirmed COVID-19 that were unvaccinated decreased from 75% in May 2021 to 48% in November 2021"

And then went on to say that that was in line with the proportion in the population.

That sentence is part of the description of the methodology for dealing with the confounders of varying levels of vaccination within the population in that section. It should not be taken in any other context, including the one you so doggedly post, despite the inaccuracy being explained by several posters across a few threads now.

The report also contains graphs and tables which should be read in the context of the methodology, and which show both clear over representation of the unvaccinated as well as numerical majority

@Woowoe

What's the point of giving someone a booster that the omicron virus has proven to evade When the booster is the same jab that was made for The original wuhan strain

They tell us jab one and two aren't enough, so we must have the third

Whilst in Israel... the third is no longer enough and they are starting their fourth

Reports show the booster lasts 10 weeks

Omicron... a new word for tye Common cold

Do you have a link to research showing that Omicron evades the vaccine? I can only find papers citing the opposite.

@Northsoutheastwest76

48% is extremely high though given this 48% comes from 10% of the population

Exactly. And further proves base rate fallacy.

@UnmentionedElephantDildo what you are saying is absolutely not true, it is not a "description of the methodology" but it simply states the fact that percentage of un-vaccinated in ICU in Nov is 48% and they state that this number has decreased from 75% in May due to "decreasing proportion of the general population who were unvaccinated" - so just since you are having trouble understanding what it means - let me explain last paragraph- they say the decrease of unvaccinated in ICU is due to smaller amount of unvaccinated population compared to previous months.
Stop spreading misinformation.

@UnmentionedElephantDildo

And then went on to say that that was in line with the proportion in the population.

That sentence is part of the description of the methodology for dealing with the confounders of varying levels of vaccination within the population in that section. It should not be taken in any other context, including the one you so doggedly post, despite the inaccuracy being explained by several posters across a few threads now.

The report also contains graphs and tables which should be read in the context of the methodology, and which show both clear over representation of the unvaccinated as well as numerical majority

Wouldn't it be deeply alarming if the proportion of vaccinated people in ICU was the same as the proportion of unvaccinated?

This chart is good.

@Northsoutheastwest76

This chart is good.

Shows quite clearly that over time more an more vaccinated people are ending up in hospital.

It is clear that the claims of 90% of un-vaccinated in ICU are pure lies.

Well as more and more people are vaccinated it is naturally going to be the case.
90% of the population is vaccinated but only 52% in ICU is a pretty good advert for the vaccine.

@sylas it says 90% un boosted not unvaccinated.
The other 90% figure bandied around on the other thread appears to be ECMO.
Plus 90% could be accurate in pockets where vaccine rates are low.
Plus the ICU age demographic for the vaccinated is higher and they are more likely to have severe co morbidities.

[quote Northsoutheastwest76]@sylas it says 90% un boosted not unvaccinated.
The other 90% figure bandied around on the other thread appears to be ECMO.
Plus 90% could be accurate in pockets where vaccine rates are low.
Plus the ICU age demographic for the vaccinated is higher and they are more likely to have severe co morbidities.[/quote]
@Northsoutheastwest76
ok unboosted - so 90% of double vaccinated in ICU then?
ECMO patients numbers are total of 154 over 5 months (Jul - Nov), sad but hardly health emergency if you consider that 450 people per DAY die of cancer and 480 per DAY from heart illnesses . link here: www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/12/Supplementary-Information-ECMO-251121-2.xlsx

@sylas That would imply that 10% were unvaccinated which is not so if referring to ICU.
I know full well the ECMO thing is a small number and possibly the reporting was ambiguous but the data up to November is clear. 10% of the population makes up 48% ICU admissions and that 10% is unvaccinated.

[quote Northsoutheastwest76]@sylas That would imply that 10% were unvaccinated which is not so if referring to ICU.
I know full well the ECMO thing is a small number and possibly the reporting was ambiguous but the data up to November is clear. 10% of the population makes up 48% ICU admissions and that 10% is unvaccinated.[/quote]
Yes, so the question is: can you end up on ICU with any other condition then Covid and to be tested positive or negative, or Covid is the only only condition that will result in ICU admission?

I believe the ICNAR data refers to those being treated for COVID in ICU.

@Northsoutheastwest76

I believe the ICNAR data refers to those being treated for COVID in ICU.

Well it is not, the ICNAR data states (page 44 of the report) that "Patients were included in the analysis if they were aged 18 years or over, resident in England, and were successfully linked to a positive COVID-19 test between 28 days before and up to 2 days after admission to the critical care unit."

And if we have a look at conditions that require ICU : www.nhs.uk/conditions/intensive-care/

*"Some common reasons include:

• a serious accident – such as a road accident, a severe head injury, a serious fall or severe burns

-a serious short-term condition – such as a heart attack or stroke -a serious infection – such as sepsis or severe pneumonia major surgery – this can either be a planned part of your recovery, or -an emergency measure if there are complications"*

Therefore it is entirely possible that majority of ICU patients had serious condition that was not related to Covid and tested positive for Covid up to a whole month before being admitted.

So again all those claims we constantly hear are very likely to be extremely exaggerated, or a pure fiction / lies.

@sylas yeah but that applies for both vaccinated and unvaccinated.

Therefore it is entirely possible that majority of ICU patients had serious condition that was not related to Covid and tested positive for Covid up to a whole month before being admitted.

Believe that if it makes you feel better but I reckon other conditions are a smaller proportion.

@Northsoutheastwest76

Therefore it is entirely possible that majority of ICU patients had serious condition that was not related to Covid and tested positive for Covid up to a whole month before being admitted.

Believe that if it makes you feel better but I reckon other conditions are a smaller proportion.

you can "recon" whatever you want. I'll leave you with very fitting quote: "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. "

recon?