Get rid of all restrictions

[AnEpisodeOfEastenders]

I think it's time for all restrictions to be removed. There has been plenty of time for people to be vaccinated / boosted that want to, those that can't or don't should take their own precautions.

If we test positive then we shouldn't need to isolate, shouldn't need to declare it and should just treat it as a normal cough / cold / illness. If you feel up to going to work, out to the pub, seeing friends or family then do so. Everyone I know who have had it say they feel fine.

Life has been disrupted for far too long, the costs associated are astronomical and will be a crippling debt for generations to come.

@hassletassle

And I've two young children, I don't want them missing out on life any more than they already have. Not even to protect the elderly. Sorry!

But presumably you would like your children to be able to access emergency medical care?

Do you genuinely think that removing all restrictions now would increase the quality of your children’s life?

Thanks @BambinaJAS So some are suggesting that under 12s get vaccinated in order to protect adults?

I wonder how many parents would want their (non vulnerable) under 12s vaccinated? I wonder how high the uptake would be?

Not actually true, my husband had post viral fatigue for six months in 2016 following a "normal" mild cold. So exactly the same thing as long Covid.

Long covid is not the same as post viral fatigue. This is pretty well documented and not at all controversial scientifically. People need to stop repeating things that aren't true on here. Or perhaps we need to start getting MN to delete some of these posts.

My 10 year old isn't vulnerable Blue but they are in the first eligible cohort because of me and they will be vaccinated ASAP and they're happy. There were no incidents of myocarditis reported in this group I believe.

[quote doublemonkey]@MaybeHeIsMyCat, how did the treatment work out for your friend, if you don't mind me asking?

My point was that these treatments should be given way before people are so sick they need to be in hospital.[/quote]
She's absolutely fine. Not in hospital and is at home it was an hours infusion she had

@Blubells

Thanks *@BambinaJAS* So some are suggesting that under 12s get vaccinated in order to protect adults?

I wonder how many parents would want their (non vulnerable) under 12s vaccinated? I wonder how high the uptake would be?

Yes. Its mostly to protect adults.

But its also worth mentioning that there has been an increase in Pediatric cases due to Omicron (based on a larger US data set)

While mortality is obviously very small for children, they are seeing morbidity levels of c0.1% to c1.0% in children.

This morbidity encompasses post-viral symptoms such as persistent headaches, lethargy, muscle weakness, neurological issues (brain fog) etc..

MHRA has already gone on record in the UK saying vaccinating the under 12s is positive from a cost/benefit standpoint.

Only the JCVI is dithering here. US folks think we have lost our minds to be perfectly honest. They started on the 5 to 11 age cohort months ago.

@doublemonkey and yes for CEV they're given early on, as in the first couple of days after a positive PCR. I think it's within 24hrs you get a clinician call to discuss options

Good to hear that Maybe. I'm in the eligible group so all good news on it happening and working is very welcome :)

[quote MaybeHeIsMyCat]@doublemonkey and yes for CEV they're given early on, as in the first couple of days after a positive PCR. I think it's within 24hrs you get a clinician call to discuss options[/quote]
Really good to know, thanks. And excellent about your friend. It would be great if this was covered by the mainstream media. I had no idea it existed.

@BambinaJAS the JCVI have approved the 5-11 initial group. We're just waiting for the NHS now.

But if the current vaccines (Pfizer) doesn't really reduce transmission of the omicron virus, then even vaccinated children can still pass the virus on to adults?

Why do people who say "no restrictions" think somehow that would make the virus disappear?

The honest, but worrying, answer is because a lot of people are genuinely quite stupid.

I don't know anyone who thinks this. Most people are (finally) waking up to the fact that we are literally hunting for this virus with a fine tooth comb. We are sifting through sand trying to find this in people who are not diseased. They're not ill. It's a fucking nonsense and it has been for at least a year.

The government know this by the way. You (and others who share your opinion) bang on and on about the science and how everyone else is just too thick to understand.

I really want it to occur to you just how far from the truth that is. What do you see? Do you see the people enforcing this remotely scared / concerned / bothered?

None of it can be trusted. The cases make no sense if you trust the 95% figure (always conveniently stated without the 0.7% figure or whatever it is). Hospitalisations? 2/3rds of people aren't even admitted with it never mind for it, they catch it in the hospital!

I'm not a tin-hatter or a covid denier. I totally know it exists and it is serious for a small minority of people. But so does a rake of other stuff that we have never and will never bat an eyelid over.

They've strung us along with guilting us into saving the NHS. All evidence points to this variant being even milder than the last one.

It's over. The tide is turning. Even fucking CNN is questioning the logic of this now. Meanwhile there's a select few still clinging to the pantomime. Masks work. Three households maximum will definitely help. Here, have your vax passport implanted into your hand for added convenience!

Nope.

What is it they say? The fool winds up where the wise man began.

You'll get there too eventually and I promise you'll feel better for it.

Do you have the figures for that Blue?

@certaynly

Why do people who say "no restrictions" think somehow that would make the virus disappear?

The honest, but worrying, answer is because a lot of people are genuinely quite stupid.

I don't know anyone who thinks this. Most people are (finally) waking up to the fact that we are literally hunting for this virus with a fine tooth comb. We are sifting through sand trying to find this in people who are not diseased. They're not ill. It's a fucking nonsense and it has been for at least a year.

The government know this by the way. You (and others who share your opinion) bang on and on about the science and how everyone else is just too thick to understand.

I really want it to occur to you just how far from the truth that is. What do you see? Do you see the people enforcing this remotely scared / concerned / bothered?

None of it can be trusted. The cases make no sense if you trust the 95% figure (always conveniently stated without the 0.7% figure or whatever it is). Hospitalisations? 2/3rds of people aren't even admitted with it never mind for it, they catch it in the hospital!

I'm not a tin-hatter or a covid denier. I totally know it exists and it is serious for a small minority of people. But so does a rake of other stuff that we have never and will never bat an eyelid over.

They've strung us along with guilting us into saving the NHS. All evidence points to this variant being even milder than the last one.

It's over. The tide is turning. Even fucking CNN is questioning the logic of this now. Meanwhile there's a select few still clinging to the pantomime. Masks work. Three households maximum will definitely help. Here, have your vax passport implanted into your hand for added convenience!

Nope.

What is it they say? The fool winds up where the wise man began.

You'll get there too eventually and I promise you'll feel better for it.

That's a very long winded way of proving the point about stupidity.

None of it can be trusted. The cases make no sense if you trust the 95% figure (always conveniently stated without the 0.7% figure or whatever it is). Hospitalisations? 2/3rds of people aren't even admitted with it never mind for it, they catch it in the hospital!

My MIL caught it in hospital, however you would never had known had it not been for the routine testing (and the covid positive in the next bed). She died three months after, but it wasn't covid.

@Blubells

But if the current vaccines (Pfizer) doesn't really reduce transmission of the omicron virus, then even vaccinated children can still pass the virus on to adults?

It does (Pfizer and Moderna).

But time from last dose/booster is the driving factor for the % of efficiency. This % trends down over 3 - 6 months.

Timing is therefore very important, which is why the US started on the 5 to 11 age group so that enough of them would be vaccinated before the winter. This is to cut down on aggregate transmission and to put less pressure on schools over winter.

The UK started too late so we dont have enough children fully vaccinated before winter.

This is a HUGE problem for schools due to them being in an indoor setting with no real social distancing.

So we are now facing a double whammy:

1. Education is very likely to be impacted (due to high number of infections among children come Jan 2022

1. Transmissiom from child to adult (parent/grandparent etc..) will also be higher for the next few months.

Do you have the figures for that Blue?

These results align with recently published data from UK Health Security Agency, showing reduced effectiveness of two doses of these vaccines against symptomatic disease due to the Omicron variant compared to Delta.

The current vaccines were developed to target the original covid virus, not omicron.

The honest, but worrying, answer is because a lot of people are genuinely quite stupid.

Very rude, and not true. I don't think those who want all restrictions removed believe that this would make the virus disappear.

nobody said that, that's a straw man argument.

@Blubells

Do you have the figures for that Blue?

These results align with recently published data from UK Health Security Agency, showing reduced effectiveness of two doses of these vaccines against symptomatic disease due to the Omicron variant compared to Delta.

The current vaccines were developed to target the original covid virus, not omicron.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1040076/Technical_Briefing_31.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjH7LPk8ej0AhXUesAKHXJqBQwQFnoECAQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3nrmcPESkc472KKGl0Yk6d" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1040076/Technical_Briefing_31.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjH7LPk8ej0AhXUesAKHXJqBQwQFnoECAQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3nrmcPESkc472KKGl0Yk6d

Scroll down to Pg 20 - 21 on efficacy of vaccines on symptomatic infection (Omicron & Delta variants)

Pfizer is 34% effective at 5 months.

AZ is 6% effective at 5 months

First 3-4 months or so is still reasonably good for Pfizer/Moderna in terms of cutting down symptomatic transmission from Omicron.

The paper you linked Blue indicates it's reduced but we know that and if it has any measurable impact on catching or transmitting it then it's worth doing.

Totally agree
Enough is enough x

The majority of my household have tested positive over the Christmas period and have been fine, dh said he felt more poorly after the first vaccine and in all honesty I’ve had worst colds.
Restrictions need to be lifted.

I don't think those who want all restrictions removed believe that this would make the virus disappear.

But if they don't believe that, what DO they think will happen?

No, we still won't be able to travel abroad, as whether we have restrictions or not, other countries will and that will drive whether we can travel.

Yes, people will still fall ill.

Yes, this will still cause disruption to public services and all other areas of life.

No, it will not help that people will have to come into all kinds of work because they are 'not very ill', because the huge increase in infections thus caused will mean that enough people are 'very ill' to cause at least the same level of disruption.

Yes, hospitals will still be extraordinarily stretched. Yes, people will still die in large numbers. No, you won't get your treatment any faster, because there will still be no beds and no staff.

No, schools will not miraculously return to a situation where every child has their permanent teacher in front of them, with the rooms fully heated and warm with the windows closed. If your child's teacher is ill, they will be away, and this could be for some time.

No, restaurants and bars will not return miraculously to profitability. there are n measures at present stopping people going out - they just aren't choosing to. Removing all restrictions won't change that.

I suppose you could stop all restrictions AND supress all information (so legislate that no information about deaths or hospitals can be published), to give people a false sense of security. Johnson might go for that, and some people will fall for it....

@rrhuth

All restrictions were removed on freedom day in the summer and Boris made very clear that removal was irreversible

Johnson makes a lot of things 'very clear', I remember how clear he was that schools were going to be open in January 2021

Schools did open for a day in January 2021. Johnson is a man of his word.

I totally agree!