Page 24 | No new measures in England before New Year

Jourdain11 · 2021-12-27T16:48:29+00:00

Has just been announced by the Health Secretary and reported across BBC etc.

cantkeepawayforever · 28/12/2021 23:13

Marsha, I can't think of another way to explain this.

This year, there are a number of people who are frail and ill, and probably elderly, and who will die over the next 12 months. Something will carry them off this year - flu or pneumonia or heart failure or Covid. Only one of them can. They will only die once.

If Covid becomes an endemic but generally well-treated respiratory disease, then it is the very elderly, the very ill, and those who have always had least resistance to respiratory viruses - and only these people - who will die. They will die of Covid rather than of flu, so the balance of 'cause of death of the very elderly or terminally ill' will change, but not the absolute numbers.

Some of the mitigations such as better ventilation, will reduce deaths from other infections. Other changes in society, such as increased wfh and a smaller amount of work-related travel se to the use of video conferencing, will reduce other causes of death such as traffic accidents.

cantkeepawayforever · 28/12/2021 23:14

vicky

You cannot both be happy with a doubling of death rates AND determined to tell me that nobody's going to die! Which one do you REALLY think?

cantkeepawayforever · 28/12/2021 23:18

[I think you just plucked the 200% out of the air and haven't looked at the data to think about how many deaths that would actually mean ... but I may be wrong and you may really be happy with that level of deaths....]

FrippEnos · 28/12/2021 23:49

vickyc90

Nope happy with my 200% as don't want any more restrictions on mine or my sons life and 200% to me means that ceiling is very unlikely to be reached.

Would putting better ventilation in schools be a restriction?
It would mean the possibility of no masks at all and fewer airborne viruses, increasing your DC's time in school as much as is possible.

But even though this would be of long term benefit some posters and the government are against it.

vickyc90 · 29/12/2021 02:11

@cantkeepawayforever

vicky

You cannot both be happy with a doubling of death rates AND determined to tell me that nobody's going to die! Which one do you REALLY think?

Yes people will die but they will largely be the unvaccinated or elderly. I'm happy to die in my 60s that would be a good life I'm here for a fun time not a long time.

@FrippEnos my concerns with driving down respiratory virus is around ALL in kids

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4100471/

noblegiraffe · 29/12/2021 02:20

See whether you're still happy to say that in your 'elderly' sixties rather than in your thirties.

Useruseruserusing · 29/12/2021 06:36

I'm in my 60s and do feel now that l have had my time and life and that I am just waiting for the end now.

rrhuth · 29/12/2021 07:30

@Useruseruserusing

I'm in my 60s and do feel now that l have had my time and life and that I am just waiting for the end now.

That's really not a great way to feel, many people are loving life into the 70s and 80s..

I don't know why you feel this way but sorry you feel like that

Waxonwaxoff0 · 29/12/2021 07:41

The majority of the people dying from Covid are very elderly. That's very sad, but very elderly people dying is not a tragedy, not to me anyway.

I'm pragmatic about death though and I find it odd that some people can't accept it. I have an elderly grandparent, of course I don't want him to die, of Covid or anything, but equally I accept that he's not going to live forever and it's likely that he will die within the next few years. To die in your 80s isn't tragic.

Most people in hospital who are younger are unvaccinated and that's their choice. I've no sympathy there really.

AuntieMarys · 29/12/2021 07:55

That's really sad useruser...I'm in my 60s and certainly don't feel like that.

HailAdrian · 29/12/2021 07:59

It's difficult to even get pcr tests at the moment so just think about how many people will be going out and about with covid. Everyone will have had it soon. :)

Doris86 · 29/12/2021 08:30

@Useruseruserusing

I'm in my 60s and do feel now that l have had my time and life and that I am just waiting for the end now.

That’s really sad. When I’m in my 60s and retired, and children have flown the best, I’m looking forward to having the time to do all the things I really want to do. It will be be a new lease of life for me.

Lifeisnteasy · 29/12/2021 09:00

@Waxonwaxoff0

The majority of the people dying from Covid are very elderly. That's very sad, but very elderly people dying is not a tragedy, not to me anyway.

I'm pragmatic about death though and I find it odd that some people can't accept it. I have an elderly grandparent, of course I don't want him to die, of Covid or anything, but equally I accept that he's not going to live forever and it's likely that he will die within the next few years. To die in your 80s isn't tragic.

Most people in hospital who are younger are unvaccinated and that's their choice. I've no sympathy there really.

👏🏻 well said

RockaLock · 29/12/2021 09:13

I keep seeing people say "just improve ventilation in schools".

Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that this is a good idea, not only for covid reasons but for general all-round health, I wondered whether the people saying this had any ideas how this could be done easily, and without costing £££££.

Do classrooms generally have windows that will open? If not, surely the cost of replacing even 1 window per classroom per school will run to a huge amount of money and time?

Or is there something else that people had in mind?

Not trying to be goady, I'm just trying to figure out that if it's such a simple thing to do, why it hasn't been done yet!

noblegiraffe · 29/12/2021 09:32

There is a simple solution, the DfE could purchase air filters for schools.

Instead they have told schools to buy their own, from their own limited funds. They have provided schools with a list of two approved suppliers, one of which is Dyson, extremely expensive and with poor reviews. One can only wonder what got Dyson govt approval. Perhaps it was Jo Johnson on the board.

JustDanceAddict · 29/12/2021 09:37

[quote PinkTree7]@PollyIndia

Me and DH can both work easily from home and the DC’s school provided ample live lessons during the last lockdown.

Frankly there’s very few reasons for us to need to leave home, given that we can get supermarket and takeaway deliveries.[/quote]
Well good for you. Unf my teens had a very rough time in lockdown and did many others and you need to look at the bigger picture.
Not going into more detail on a public forum but lockdown would be an unmitigated disaster for many A level students who didn’t even get to do GCSEs due to lockdown first time around.
Dh and I would be ok ourselves, but that’s not the point.
Minor restrictions- fine; total lockdown- hideous

noblegiraffe · 29/12/2021 09:39

I'm just trying to figure out that if it's such a simple thing to do, why it hasn't been done yet!

Btw the answer to this is ‘the govt doesn’t give a shit about education and refuses to spend any money on it’.

borntobequiet · 29/12/2021 10:07

OMG I’m 68 and hadn’t realised I was so decrepit. And I have a new job starting soon, what a shame.
I’d rather like a second booster though as the first may be wearing off.

CallmeHendricks · 29/12/2021 10:11

How come such casual ageism is accepted on MN?

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 29/12/2021 10:16

OMG I’m 68 and hadn’t realised I was so decrepit. And I have a new job starting soon, what a shame.

DH is 67, I haven't broken the news to him that he's completely past it yet!

CallmeHendricks · 29/12/2021 10:19

As the official retirement age is 67 now, it would seem that few of us will ever get to enjoy time off work, if we're expected to give up and die by then.

noblegiraffe · 29/12/2021 10:20

@CallmeHendricks

How come such casual ageism is accepted on MN?

Because very elderly people in their 60s generally don't know how to use the internet so aren't on here.

CallmeHendricks · 29/12/2021 10:22

Lifeisnteasy · 29/12/2021 10:27

@CallmeHendricks

How come such casual ageism is accepted on MN?

Where?

puppeteer · 29/12/2021 10:34

Talk about acceptable numbers of deaths, excess or otherwise misses the point.

The value of life comes from a life well lived. Define that how you will, but it isn't a 'quantity of years' for most people, and includes factors such as time spent with family (even if it's in argument!), friends, meeting, talking, being educated, applying that education through work, travelling, exploring, etc..

There's a dawning realisation in many that postponing death at the cost of living well is not unambiguously a worthy sacrifice.