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Covid

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Original poster

Dying with covid or of covid...

49 replies

brass4 · 25/12/2021 13:00

Hi! Just wondering if people knew whether the statistics the government release daily, for deaths in hospital, are for people who died OF Covid or WITH Covid? If they were dying and were already in hospital but also had Covid, would they be included in the death toll? Thanks

OP posts:

Lazypuppy · 25/12/2021 13:03

Its having tested positive within 28 days, so with covid not necessarily of covid, and they could not even have covid when the die

x2boys · 25/12/2021 13:06

This again ,there are loads of thread ,s about this 🙄

milly74 · 25/12/2021 13:08

basically throwing anything and everything in to inflate numbers so they can justify restrictions

milly74 · 25/12/2021 13:09

@x2boys

This again ,there are loads of thread ,s about this 🙄

its an important question

Dozer · 25/12/2021 13:10

With

x2boys · 25/12/2021 13:10

So read the very many threads about it ,it's not a very original question .

x2boys · 25/12/2021 13:11

@milly74

basically throwing anything and everything in to inflate numbers so they can justify restrictions

For what reason would they do that?

rooarsome · 25/12/2021 13:24

My understanding is that it is "with". Happy to be corrected if wrong.

PatriciaHolm · 25/12/2021 13:30

There are 2 main sets of data.

One, the daily number, is those who pass away within 28 days of their first positive covid test. There is a bit of a lag in this of course as not all deaths are reported within a day or so, and this is running at around a seven day average of 100 a day at the moment.

The other is taken from death certs, and includes only those for whom Covid is listed as one of the reasons for death. There is about a fortnight's lag in this due to getting this data, but this is running at a seven day average of about 120 a day.

Both are here

coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths

MerryChristmas21 · 25/12/2021 13:33

It doesn't inflate numbers though as it doesn't include people who die after 28!days from covid caused issues.

Prescottdanni123 · 25/12/2021 13:33

What a lovely thread topic for Christmas day

LumosSolem · 25/12/2021 14:27

@x2boys

So read the very many threads about it ,it's not a very original question .

Neither are all the threads about teething, 4 month sleep regression, and c-section recovery, plenty of new threads appear on those topics without posters saying 'this has been done loads before' or whatever

SagittariusDwarf · 25/12/2021 14:32

Merry Christmas to you too OP!

bobbie42 · 25/12/2021 14:33

@milly74

basically throwing anything and everything in to inflate numbers so they can justify restrictions

It actually does the opposite. It shrinks the numbers.

As of Dec 25th 2021...

Deaths within 28 days of positive test = 147,857

Deaths with COVID-19 on the death certificate = 171,801

Abraxan · 25/12/2021 14:35

Depends which set of data you read.
The quickest data around records anyone who has tested positive within 28 days.
This will takes in people who tested positive after becoming I'll with something else, but also doesn't include the number of people who die 29+ plus days after testing - this will be a reasonable number who go into icu, for example.

One way of looking at it all is to look at the data that is released after a significant delay as that records dies with covid as the primary cause of death. Also you can look at excess deaths. These are all easily available to find in government pages.

DockOTheBay · 25/12/2021 18:55

It actually does the opposite. It shrinks the numbers.

Deaths within 28 days of positive test = 147,857

Deaths with COVID-19 on the death certificate = 171,801

This may no longer be true with omicron which more people have but is less likely to cause hospitalizations. I'm sure I read the statistic recently of how many people tested positive AFTER going to hospital - as in, they went for something else and then tested positive on routine test. It was something like 60%, I'll see if I can find it.

Suranjeep · 25/12/2021 19:08

@bobbie42 but it’s still inflating the numbers if the reason they died wasnt Covid?

For example I’m currently within 28 days of a Covid positive Pcr. If I died in a car crash tomorrow or even killed myself I assume this would still be a Covid death because within the 28 days?

PAFMO · 25/12/2021 19:26

@Lazypuppy

Its having tested positive within 28 days, so with covid not necessarily of covid, and they could not even have covid when the die

This has been debunked eleventy million times over the past 20 months. Try looking at excess deaths instead. Because those people didn't just keel over obediently to justify lockdowns one presumes. www.statista.com/statistics/1131428/excess-deaths-in-england-and-wales/ April 2020 for example. 12,000 excess deaths PER WEEK. Whether they were dying "of" or "with", they were dying of something that in the same week in 2019 12,000 people managed to avoid.

PAFMO · 25/12/2021 19:29

[quote Suranjeep]@bobbie42 but it’s still inflating the numbers if the reason they died wasnt Covid?

For example I’m currently within 28 days of a Covid positive Pcr. If I died in a car crash tomorrow or even killed myself I assume this would still be a Covid death because within the 28 days?[/quote]
No.
Your death certificate would say you'd died in a car crash, with Covid (possibly) being listed as a secondary contributor. (unlikely though in the scenario you describe) if you killed yourself it may be listed as a secondary contributor.

madmomma · 25/12/2021 19:30

@milly74

basically throwing anything and everything in to inflate numbers so they can justify restrictions

Yup. There will be some financial gain to be had for each death reported.

Abraxan · 25/12/2021 19:32

[quote Suranjeep]@bobbie42 but it’s still inflating the numbers if the reason they died wasnt Covid?

For example I’m currently within 28 days of a Covid positive Pcr. If I died in a car crash tomorrow or even killed myself I assume this would still be a Covid death because within the 28 days?[/quote]
You may be in the 28 days figure, but not in the death certificate official records. COVID wouldn't be in your death certificate in such a circumstance.

Likewise, my grandma died whilst within 28 days of testing positive, her death certificate doesn't mention covid as that's not what she died of.

lololololollll · 25/12/2021 19:33

Take a day off guys

80sMum · 25/12/2021 19:34

The ONS data are a more reliable indicator of actual deaths from covid, or where covid was a contributing factor in the death.
Unfortunately, there is quite a time lag before the data are published.
I think it currently stands at about 176,000 deaths, so higher than the official figures.
The official figures are merely an indicator.

ilovesooty · 25/12/2021 19:39

@milly74

basically throwing anything and everything in to inflate numbers so they can justify restrictions

Here we go again.

bobbie42 · 25/12/2021 19:51

[quote Suranjeep]@bobbie42 but it’s still inflating the numbers if the reason they died wasnt Covid?

The number of people who have died with COVID listed as a cause of death on their death certificate = 171,801

This is more that the number of deaths within 28 days of positive test = 147,857

The latter number might include a small number of people where COVID was not a cause of death - but this number is dwarfed by the tens of thousands of people whose death was partly caused by COVID but who didn't manage to die withing 28 days of their positive test.

If you die in a car crash while COVID positive - the COVID would not be on your death certificate.

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