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I met a real life full on anti vaxxer today

298 replies

shiningcuckoo · 22/12/2021 08:22

And some of her opinions were so out there and aggressive I had to walk away. Apparently if we hadn't vaccinated against measles we'd all be ok because measles provides immunity. And actually measles never hurt anyone. And polio never hurt anyone either. People being seriously ill was a conspiracy designed to get us to accept vaccines back in the day, al" heading towards the greatest conspiracy of all and that is population control and the existence of Covid. She apparently knows loads of "elders" who nursed people through polio. Apparently it's very mild. I asked her to define "elders" and she talked about my generation. My generation were vaccinated. No one had polio, never mind nursed others. And there is no Covid in Africa. And no Covid in Nepal. She knows this because she once went on holiday to Nepal. And she is applying to remove her children from Steiner to homeschool them because vaccinated teachers (it's mandatory here) are a poor moral example. Either that or are being forced . When I said that I didn't know a single teacher who had been vaccinated against their will (and I know loads having been a teacher for 20 years) she said that was just my opinion and one opinion counted for nothing. I had to leave her company.

OP posts:
WonderfulYou · 22/12/2021 11:56

I thought it was very difficult to be his doctor- he was probably a bit too smart for his own good?

That’s really interesting!!

I’ve always noticed a correlation between those who aren’t that clever and being anti-vax.
I thought it was a mixture of not being able to read information properly and being more easily manipulated.
But it’s interesting to hear of someone who’s super smart thinking it!

CaliforniaDrumming · 22/12/2021 11:56

@itsgettingwierd

Also, I think people have somehow been socialised into believing that if you 'feel' something is right, then it must be true, even if all the evidence goes against it. So they can't be argued out of it because you can't argue with someone's feelings.

This is actually a really good point.

I've heard it a lot recently where people say "it's my truth".

They seem to think that if they say something everyone has to believe it and their thoughts, feelings and recollections of it.

Well put. Also we are going through a time where there is huge distrust of "experts", intellectuals and "big pharma". Who, of course, are not infallible themselves and often have terrible track records. But I would rather trust them in a pandemic than an anon on MN. On another post, someone is arguing that the large numbers in ITU are people who have had adverse effects from the vaccine. I don't even know what to say at this point. If you think the WHO, JCVI, CDC and others are all involved in a vast conspiracy, I can't convince you.
JessieLongleg · 22/12/2021 11:57

My ex is a anti vaxxer think it cos he lost his mother at the beginning of lockdown. Can't have a chat without him finishing it off with anti vax stuff. Like yesterday he rang to check my 12 week scan went well and at the end he mentioned that the vaccine increases miscarriage. Which has be shown to be false now ffs.

Cindie943811A · 22/12/2021 11:58

When I was a school our neighbour had a beautiful baby girl. This was a few days before Rubella vaccinations and the child was blind.
Such a mild disease that her mum was barely aware of but with life long consequences for her daughter.
And one should remember entire communities of indigenous people wiped out with their first exposure to measles and other “common” viruses.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 22/12/2021 11:58

@HailAdrian

There’s no moral equivalence when one group merely causes feelings to be hurt and the other causes actual harm.

As far as I can gather, you can still catch and spread covid if you've been vaccinated. As for 'the unvaccinated' hogging hospital beds, this is debatable, at least on here.

Oh, another person who still doesn’t understand the basics.

Yes you can indeed still catch and spread covid if you have been vaccinated. It’s a vaccine not a magic spell. The point is you are much less likely to catch it, to spread it, to be seriously ill and need hospital treatment, to die.

And if you feel mocked or bullied by my explaining that it’s your own problem quite honestly.

ElvisPresleyHadABaby · 22/12/2021 11:58

There was one shouting at the poor teenage volunteer at the sanitizing and mask station by the entrance to the hospital today. Am immunosuppressed, so couldn't get too close, but she was eventually taken away by security. Absolutely abhorrent.

WhatMattersMost · 22/12/2021 11:59

My sister is a conspiracy theorist - the whole tooty: Icke, 5G, Bill Gates, Plandemic. She is very convincing, and rather than ranting goes into low-register mode when she talks. She appears to be the height of reasonableness. It is only occasionally that the mask slips, and I think that's when she feels she's losing control in some way, or when she is by herself. She has paid thousands of pounds to try to convince others of her beliefs, financing videos, and, we think, lawyers' letters to journalists who have written about the vaccines.

We had a difficult childhood. It was privileged in some ways, but riddled with abuse, addiction, and neglect. I always thought my sister had somehow dealt with all of this, and I realise now how much I once colluded with the idea that we could heal ourselves through our beliefs. I took the therapy route; my sister chose spirituality and the New Age. I think this is what made the difference: I chose something that refused to pander to my delusions and my defences.

I can no longer speak to her. Not because of the conspiracy theories as much as her sense of superiority. It is hard trying to maintain a relationship when the other person refuses to acknowledge the damage our upbringing did to us and instead uses it as a weapon to prove to me that she has risen above it all and healed herself, and that one day I'll be ready to do that too. I'm too far into the sibling dynamic to be able to detach from my rage at this point.

In truth, I think it has been harder for her. I was the outcast in the family, and so realised quite early on that something was very wrong (or, rather, back then I thought something was very wrong with me), and I sought help earlier.

So behind each conspiracy theory story where the details of what they believe and what they extol feel very similar there lie many different stories of just how the true believer has ended up the way they have. It's rarely a happy tale.

rumrunner123 · 22/12/2021 12:02

@AliceA2021

"I think a lot of antivaxxers (of the hardcore variety as opposed to the hesitants) are basically people who are mentally quite unwell and very lost and looking for something to grasp hold of."

I think you are right there. They cannot imagine a tiny virus could cause so much devastation and so have to believe it's invented/control etc by the 'leaders'. I do get rather fed up with the 'wake up' posts some appear to share when they are very much mentally asleep and regurgitating YouTube memes and sayings.

Yes what is this wake up rubbish?

I keep seeing this wake up and see the truth posts (mainly DSD and her BF) but nobody can actually tell me what it is that I am waking up to or what the actual bloody truth is meant to be.

I was talking to DH about it last night and said maybe if they would just say what this truth is we would all have an epiphany and bow down to their superior knowledge.

I have to say though we had same problem with all that save our children and how HC was a demon drinking the blood of scared children under that pizza place - exhausting

Nietzschethehiker · 22/12/2021 12:04

I'm generally of the opinion to show as much compassion as I can towards anti vaxxers because I do assume that there is a level of mental health concern or severe health anxiety and whilst I don't agree with them I will generally agree to disagree and just ot both be respectful. I can't imagine it's much fun living in their heads.

I do have a problem with the evangelical anti vaxxers so to speak. You have a right to your beliefs , no matter how ridiculous I think they are but so do I. I do not appreciate being lectured or spoke down to and will say that.

The only time I have had an issue is the type of person I train is professional and very visible to vulnerable people. Specifically in roles where they are in charge of safeguarding and very vulnerable people. I came across one that I went to their CEO because they were spouting a lot of rubbish to very vulnerable people who were very much in a power imbalance situation where they were likely to listen. Their arrogance was ridiculous.

Believe what you like but it's unconscionable to try to convert vulnerable people to your own messed up agenda.

I will admit to a visceral response to the word sheeple....I instantly assume a level of stupidity and arrogance when someone uses that term to describe others that makes me turn heel and walk away.

Jaxhog · 22/12/2021 12:05

It was thanks to antivaxxers that I caught whooping cough a few years ago. I was out of action for nearly 3 months. Not fun, but at least not seriously life-threatening.

I can understand vaccine hesitancy, but not the conspiracy theorists.

KurtWildesChristmasNamechange · 22/12/2021 12:09

@Jaxhog

It was thanks to antivaxxers that I caught whooping cough a few years ago. I was out of action for nearly 3 months. Not fun, but at least not seriously life-threatening.

I can understand vaccine hesitancy, but not the conspiracy theorists.

This makes no sense. Did you not have the whooping cough vaccine then?
Cindie943811A · 22/12/2021 12:10

A close relative is an anti-vaxxer who believes in trusting in “Mother Earth” ! Fat lot of good that has done to pre-fax generations and those unable to access the benefits of modern medicine!

Query, do these flat earners also refuse antibiotics, operations, blood transfusions, kidney dialysis?

CaliforniaDrumming · 22/12/2021 12:12

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel The number of times this has been repeated! MN asked me to explain this because I reported a post even. I thought this was common knowledge by now.

Notjustanymum · 22/12/2021 12:15

According to proper, scientific research, it is estimated that vaccines have prevented 6 million deaths from vaccine-preventable diseases annually (Ehreth, 2003).
Your acquaintance, presumably relying on Facebook for “facts”, is bonkers!

BogRollBOGOF · 22/12/2021 12:19

There were a lot of anti-vaxxers on the cloth nappy and babywearing groups I used to use. There tends to be an overlap on those "natural" sorts of lifestyle.

It's important to distinguish between actually anti-vaxx and those who are hestitant about specific aspects of a (new) vaccine. There's no point in trying to engage with anti-vaxx and the bigger the issue you make of it , the more you entrench them. This is part of the reason why I'm opposed to mandates and vaccine passes, particularly as we have a good culture of vaccine acceptance in the UK anyway.
With hestitancy, there is usually room for persusion with appropriate targeting of areas of concern and balanced discussion.

Flaxmeadow · 22/12/2021 12:19

I'm old enough to remember the disabilities from Measles and Polio we had at school. Children with hearing aids and callipers. Life long disability

Guess I must have imagined it all according to the anti vax nutters

Bagamoyo1 · 22/12/2021 12:23

@Lex345

I am in fairly regular contact with an anti vaxxer due to my business. Lovely person. Until you get on the topic of COVID. I am not talking about reasonable uncertainty about vaccine efficacy or side effects either; I am talking full blown conspiracy theories and its a bit like The Matrix meets 1984. I honestly dont know where to put my face.
I know someone exactly like this too. Fine in every other way, just avoid the subject of Covid.
Plexie · 22/12/2021 12:24

Re polio: although it was eradicated in the UK and we think people aged 70+ were the last to have experienced it, that's not the case in the rest of the world.

The TV presenter Ade Adepitan was born in Nigeria in the 1970s, contracted polio as a child and lost the use of one leg, which is why he uses a wheelchair. I didn't know that was the reason until his TV series on Africa (which was excellent by the way - watch it if you can) and he visited a group of young people who were wheelchair users due to polio.

Nigeria was declared polio-free just last year (2020). Polio still exists in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/profiles/1L5PcSNCglzXvZD7LnB3GMN/ade-adepitan

www.un.org/africarenewal/news/polio-no-longer-endemic-nigeria-%E2%80%93-un-health-agency

HappyBackHome · 22/12/2021 12:24

I knew an elderly lady when I was a child who was left permanently, and severely, disabled by contracting polio when she was a small child, and one of my (7/8 year old Sad) friends at primary school died from measles (that developed into sepsis/septicaemia I think) Both of these were only 40 years ago, so relatively recently Sad.

I agree with the past poster who said 'thank goodness for vaccinations'.

Stuckandinamess · 22/12/2021 12:26

A doctor friend of mine has well and truly disappeared so far down the rabbit hole it's unreal. I cannot talk to her anymore and have ceased contact as you can't even keep to 'safe' topics, she is on a one woman mission to tell you 'the truth". Anything and everything is in there- Covid is a way of controlling us, microchips in vaccines, high profile people in satanic child abuse rings. I am lucky I can distance myself but feel sorry for her family and colleagues

Flaxmeadow · 22/12/2021 12:27

I will admit to a visceral response to the word sheeple....I instantly assume a level of stupidity and arrogance when someone uses that term to describe others that makes me turn heel and walk away

Sheeple and the clown emoji. Apparently a clown emoji reply is supposed to be some kind of argument.

A lot of this nonsense comes from the USA. Now the loons are super upset and clown, sheeple and nasty replies on social media are in overdrive because Trump has again advised on getting the vaccine. Oh deary me 🤡 🐑

Squidthing · 22/12/2021 12:31

My dad has polio as a baby and was permanently disabled by it, not to mention the psychological scars. It came back later in his life as well so he was pretty much immobile by the end. Anti vaxxers are plain ignorant.

TyrannosaurusRegina · 22/12/2021 12:31

@Mrsjayy

A few of the people I knew who had polio lived into their 70s and my upstairs neighbour was in he 80s
Same, my grandads friend lived until he was 80 odd. Deaf in one ear and lost the use of one of his arms which used to just hang by his side, due to polio, but yeah, he lived till he was 80 odd.
milkyaqua · 22/12/2021 12:31

All the anti-vaxxers I know are convinced (or try to convince others) that they are not anti-vaxxers, they are just discerning, critical thinkers, etc.

TyrannosaurusRegina · 22/12/2021 12:32

@Stuckandinamess

A doctor friend of mine has well and truly disappeared so far down the rabbit hole it's unreal. I cannot talk to her anymore and have ceased contact as you can't even keep to 'safe' topics, she is on a one woman mission to tell you 'the truth". Anything and everything is in there- Covid is a way of controlling us, microchips in vaccines, high profile people in satanic child abuse rings. I am lucky I can distance myself but feel sorry for her family and colleagues
A healthcare professional? Or a doctor of arts/social science etc? If it's the former then that is scary.