Should Mumsnet be removing anti vax thread/info/supporters?

[wishingitwasspring]

Not sure what the legal stance is.

@user1745

I'm not in favour of removing "misinformation" because our understanding of what is true is constantly changing.

The idea that Covid leaked from a lab was once "misinformation". Now it's at least considered a plausible theory.

The idea that the vaccinated could still spread Covid was once "misinformation". Now it's accepted fact.

It would be the height of arrogance to assume that we know now with certainty what is true and what isn't.

Where misinformation is flagrant and easily disputed, I think it's best left to other posters to do so.

This. Very well put.

The idea that Covid leaked from a lab was once "misinformation". Now it's at least considered a plausible theory.

That is not true. It has been considered, discussed and investigated and reinvestigated, over the last two years by several different official channels and by different countries. It hasn't suddenly become a "plausible theory".

The idea that the vaccinated could still spread Covid was once "misinformation". Now it's accepted fact.

It was never misinformation. It was unknown precisely how well the individual vaccines would hold up against different, and emerging strains.

[quote Beadebaser]@nojudgementhere

I think it’s a fine line. I’ve read a few of your posts - and I think you come across well.

Debate is good, but when we are potentially heading for a critical situation - I think it’s vital that people are encouraged to follow what the best scientific advice is globally.

There are some posters here who manipulate data, or present scientific papers out of context, who are arrogant and don’t listen to reason. It’s this that I have a huge with.[/quote]
Might need to read a few more of their posts, I think...

Problem is much misinformation comes from Johnson, Javid and Raab mouths

It is a tough one, because on the one hand-yes, misinformation is potentially dangerous but on the other-if you censor people who are buying into a conspiracy theory, to them it confirms their suspicions.

I am in fairly regular contact with someone who is firmly anti vax and some of their opinions are quite honestly mind blowing, full on 1984 dystopia stuff. They manage to find a variety of "sources" to back up their arguments. I do wonder if this is a fear coping mechanism/denial phase to what has been a crazy couple of years.

@dreamingbohemian not me. One health-destoying prescription followed by absolute dismissal, denial and gaslighting put paid to any trust I had in either doctors or regulatory bodies.

Censorship is the thin end of the wedge. No one should want that to become normalised in society. People have died for free speech and it would be massively irresponsible to just give that away!

People are allowed to have concerns and to express them, particularly about things they are being asked to put into their bodies. I think there are valid questions around hormonal disturbances and heart implications. It's public discussion which can lead to previously unknown side effects becoming identified.

Sometimes doctors/scientists have made mistakes - not bad related but a doctor once prescribed one of my kids with a combination of medicine which would have killed them if they'd taken it. Fortunately my mum (also a HCP) knew and prevented it. Blind trust is dangerous.

People are allowed to have concerns and to express them, particularly about things they are being asked to put into their bodies. I think there are valid questions around hormonal disturbances and heart implications. It's public discussion which can lead to previously unknown side effects becoming identified.

Totally agree. Huge difference between someone asking if anyone else experienced altered menstrual cycle after a vaccination and someone stating having the vaccination makes you infertile, though.

@Coffeeshopcookies

I have a feeling MN is becoming a "safe space" for anti-vaxxers in the same why it was controversially associated with being anti-trans. If you look at the questions about not complying with lockdown rules, about 80% of responses were no. That's a bonkers ratio compared to real life where the vast majority of people are fully vaccinated and will still follow lockdown rules if required.

Not sure what not complying with lockdown has to do with anything. I personally benefit from a lockdown yet i still don't want it because it destroys other people's lives.

Those who support it are generally the most selfish of all. "I don't want to go out/want to work from home, therefore everyone else should be locked at home". Usually nothing to do with the virus itself

When did free speech become illegal??!!

@Itsnearlyxmas

When did free speech become illegal??!!

It didn't. Mumsnet isn't doing anything legally or illegally when it removes lies by loons.

I haven't had the vaccination. It is up to people if they have it or not and is not compulsory. I don't really have a problem with the discussion on here about it. The vast majority of posters have had it and most are not happy about those of us who have chosen not to have the vaccine.

People are pretty good on both sides on producing good links where someone has posted something that cannot be proved.

If we closed down the debate entirely that would be a bad thing.

As we are women not men we tend on both sides not to be mad conspiracy theorists and instead tend to look at facts so I don't see lots of threads peddling lies on either side.

Mumsnet isn't doing anything legally or illegally when it removes lies by loons.

This is the second post I've seen in a week where people have been accused of having a mental health condition if they disagree with the posters superior views, that is the type of claim abusers throw around.

I reported the first one and was told the slur (also loon) doesn't break talk guidelines. Well it fucking should, why is it okay to use derogatory terms about people with poor mental health? Why is it okay to assume poor mental health as a form of attack for someone if they disagree with you? Why is it okay to push the rhetoric that if someone has a mental health condition that they cannot form an opinion about anything after that?

@Isthatthebestyoucando

Mumsnet isn't doing anything legally or illegally when it removes lies by loons.

This is the second post I've seen in a week where people have been accused of having a mental health condition if they disagree with the posters superior views, that is the type of claim abusers throw around.

I reported the first one and was told the slur (also loon) doesn't break talk guidelines. Well it fucking should, why is it okay to use derogatory terms about people with poor mental health? Why is it okay to assume poor mental health as a form of attack for someone if they disagree with you? Why is it okay to push the rhetoric that if someone has a mental health condition that they cannot form an opinion about anything after that?

That's sort of what is going on isn't it? Really aggressive and nasty stuff from people who think they are on the side of the angels because they do exactly what they are told and believe anything, no matter how daft.

The post above from @milkyaqua is a case in point - total gaslighting with a bullying tone and basically misinformation, but under the guise of being a 'fact checker' (or something!).

Hopefully the nasty people will realise at some point that being abusive doesn't really do any good

@Xenia

I haven't had the vaccination. It is up to people if they have it or not and is not compulsory. I don't really have a problem with the discussion on here about it. The vast majority of posters have had it and most are not happy about those of us who have chosen not to have the vaccine.

People are pretty good on both sides on producing good links where someone has posted something that cannot be proved.

If we closed down the debate entirely that would be a bad thing.

As we are women not men we tend on both sides not to be mad conspiracy theorists and instead tend to look at facts so I don't see lots of threads peddling lies on either side.

I thought u have only not had it because of neddle phobia, as u have commented on lots of other threads about vaccines. so that would imply u are for the vaccine and if didnt have neddle phobia u would have it. The problem is one persons facts are just not facts. And because of misinformation and disinformation being so widely available and the idea that regular people with no scientific background at all can be on same level as scientists i think thats a problem.

The anti-vaxers are absolutely out in force on these threads.

I have had it up to here and disengaged this morning after constant pleas for everyone to “be kind” to them and their “mental health”. The arrogance!

There are some daft posters (someone who cited Eric Clapton and Van Morrison as anti-vaxers of whom we should take notice) but there are many more who are sneaky, and, as I said, hold up the “kind” and “mental health” cards, whilst busily posting misinformation and multiple graphs…

@Isthatthebestyoucando

Mumsnet isn't doing anything legally or illegally when it removes lies by loons.

This is the second post I've seen in a week where people have been accused of having a mental health condition if they disagree with the posters superior views, that is the type of claim abusers throw around.

I reported the first one and was told the slur (also loon) doesn't break talk guidelines. Well it fucking should, why is it okay to use derogatory terms about people with poor mental health? Why is it okay to assume poor mental health as a form of attack for someone if they disagree with you? Why is it okay to push the rhetoric that if someone has a mental health condition that they cannot form an opinion about anything after that?

Actually, YOU are the one making the connection between conspiracy theorist anti-vaxxers and people with MH issues. I don't think conspiracy theorists have MH problems. I think they're ignorant (in the original sense of the word) Their lies are not "disagreeing with superior views". They are lies and dangerous misinformation about scientific fact.

@DottyHarmer

The anti-vaxers are absolutely out in force on these threads.

I have had it up to here and disengaged this morning after constant pleas for everyone to “be kind” to them and their “mental health”. The arrogance!

There are some daft posters (someone who cited Eric Clapton and Van Morrison as anti-vaxers of whom we should take notice) but there are many more who are sneaky, and, as I said, hold up the “kind” and “mental health” cards, whilst busily posting misinformation and multiple graphs…

Don't worry, it'll calm down now that Johnson has "saved Christmas". It'll be fun in January though.

Yes I made a connection between someone calling a group of people loons and mental illness. It was me.