Time to think about closing the schools

[DolphinFC]

ONS survey finds that education staff are 37% more likely to catch Covid than other workers.

Previous data showed they were no more likely to catch covid than other workers and many people (especially MNetters) felt that this was all the proof needed to keep schools open.

Well, new data shows the reverse is now the case.

@Blubells

If they don’t plan to close schools, I wouldn’t bother with other restrictions

But we're trying to do everything possible so that we can keep schools open. Schools should be the last to close, after non essential retail, bars, restaurants, etc.

When that happened in November lockdown last year. Kent kept rising because of Delta. Omicron would be even worse.

Omicron will inevitably continue to rise, regardless of restrictions.
But if we're trying to slow down that rise a little, perhaps closing non essential businesses and bars/restaurants would do that.

We've got to decide whether the costs of closing schools again outweigh any benefits?!

I think there should be a hybrid model of schooling before a full closure. 50% of kids in am vs 50% of kids in pm or half a week for 50% and then the other half a week for 50%. Allows all kids to be in half a week to focus on the core subjects with home learning set for foundation subjects. Also allows some contact with peers for their mental health plus allows schools to keep an eye on safeguarding. It also supports FSM so children could be in for their lunch who need to be.

A reasonable compromise if faced with full closures.

@Awalkintime

I think there should be a hybrid model of schooling before a full closure. 50% of kids in am vs 50% of kids in pm or half a week for 50% and then the other half a week for 50%. Allows all kids to be in half a week to focus on the core subjects with home learning set for foundation subjects. Also allows some contact with peers for their mental health plus allows schools to keep an eye on safeguarding. It also supports FSM so children could be in for their lunch who need to be.

A reasonable compromise if faced with full closures.

Good suggestion. The only issue I can see is that many ‘key worker’ children were in full time last lockdown (around 80% of my daughter’s class were in, she wasn’t). So rotating the remaining 20% wouldn’t have much impact on the numbers, would it?

@Awalkintime

I think there should be a hybrid model of schooling before a full closure. 50% of kids in am vs 50% of kids in pm or half a week for 50% and then the other half a week for 50%. Allows all kids to be in half a week to focus on the core subjects with home learning set for foundation subjects. Also allows some contact with peers for their mental health plus allows schools to keep an eye on safeguarding. It also supports FSM so children could be in for their lunch who need to be.

A reasonable compromise if faced with full closures.

Except many schools - mine included - have many students who rely on public transport to get in. The logistics of this are impractical. If schools were allowed to make their own reasonable decisions, we might be able to make it work.

We had very few in, about 6 or 7 at a time. It might impact on a few. However, many key workers work shifts - supermarkets, police, nurses etc so many would not need full time. Some could work early morning shifts and finish at dinner or the other way around and ask for those shifts temporarily or weekend shifts. While it isn't ideal, some people could manage shifts to make them available if managers work with them. We had a family where the managers worked together to allow a half hour overlap where mum and dad could swap and travel into work. It was such an effective way to manage the situation and shows what can be done when people communicate effectively. Yes certain shifts aren't always available but there many people stamp their feet about needing certain shifts when it suits at other times, I'm sure they could do some more foot stamping and those without kids would be very grateful for normal day shifts back for a short while.

@Awalkintime

I think there should be a hybrid model of schooling before a full closure. 50% of kids in am vs 50% of kids in pm or half a week for 50% and then the other half a week for 50%. Allows all kids to be in half a week to focus on the core subjects with home learning set for foundation subjects. Also allows some contact with peers for their mental health plus allows schools to keep an eye on safeguarding. It also supports FSM so children could be in for their lunch who need to be.

A reasonable compromise if faced with full closures.

And what do working parents do?

Those saying other places should close before schools, you do realise there'll be no furlough this time?

What would impact on a family more, the children losing 3 weeks of school or the main bread-winning losing their job?

I don't think the PP who said schools should close but no to going back to teaching because none of the teaching staff wanted that answered my question of what the alternative is?
From the start, we live taught to timetable. Some kids logged in and joined in. Some logged in and went away. Some watched the lessons later. Some never joined a single lesson.
We registered them and followed up.
Some didn't have a computer so we bought a load and gave them out.
Some don't have reliable internet so we bought dongles.
Some couldn't join live because of their home circumstances so we recorded for them to watch.
Some desktop truant in school.
We had loads of kids in school in January.

I would willingly - if not happily - return to online teaching if needs be. But live lessons to timetable are not the holy grail.
My friend who had to get the police involved after a vile tiktok of her teaching online will refuse to do it again.

@DolphinFC

Those saying other places should close before schools, you do realise there'll be no furlough this time?

What would impact on a family more, the children losing 3 weeks of school or the main bread-winning losing their job?

Who says there will be no furlough?

Schools closed here Wales I'm sure there will be a delay in opening to save the NHS again

Those saying other places should close before schools, you do realise there'll be no furlough this time?

Without a furlough scheme working parents will be unable to work if they have to home school their children instead. Closing schools without furlough will mean many working parents may lose their jobs...

As with tenancies the government would have to bring in a law that staff can't be sacked for X period or pay furlough

littlebabycheeses

Quote from Tresauary:

Treasury source said: “If we do get to a position where we are telling businesses that they have to shut their doors then it is not unreasonable for them to expect additional government support. That could mean a return to the furlough scheme but depending on what, if any, further restrictions are necessary there might be other ways of providing that support.”

There might be other ways to provide support.
Read between the lines.

@justasking111

As with tenancies the government would have to bring in a law that staff can't be sacked for X period or pay furlough

What if a business goes bankrupt?

@DolphinFC

littlebabycheeses

Quote from Tresauary:

Treasury source said: “If we do get to a position where we are telling businesses that they have to shut their doors then it is not unreasonable for them to expect additional government support. That could mean a return to the furlough scheme but depending on what, if any, further restrictions are necessary there might be other ways of providing that support.”

There might be other ways to provide support.
Read between the lines.

And if schools close with no furlough in place, the impact will be the same. I can’t work if my children are at home.

I would willingly - if not happily - return to online teaching if needs be. But live lessons to timetable are not the holy grail.

I agree it's shit, but what alternative is there?
I did suggest in another thread that primary schools should at least discuss the possibility of cutting holidays at other times, and was told that everyone's summer vacation plans were something that could not be sacrificed or changed.

Something's got to give. Either you keep schools open, or do the shitty online teaching, or add on extra in-person teaching time elsewhere when the winter is past.

No. Children have missed enough school. If this happens everyone and his dog is suddenly a key worker, there are children in the vulnerable category too (those with SEN or social workers etc). Teachers will be working anyway.

The spread of covid is inevitable. Closing everything just causes problems in so many different areas, education is important, so is mental health. Banning and closing everything to avoid covid isn't going to make it go away permanently as it all just starts spreading again as soon as restrictions are lifted.

Obviously the clinically extremely vulnerable would need to take precautions, but all 6 of us in my house, none clinically vulnerable, have had it and it wasn't much more than a normal winter cold. I loathe the protect the NHS line, firstly because the government didn't seem to give much of a stuff about the NHS before it gave them the opportunity to control everyone's behaviour, children and young people are the future doctors, nurses etc of the NHS, I feel their education needs protecting too, this has all gone on too long already, we have vaccinations now, boosters etc keep repeating a never ending cycle of lockdowns would be more disastrous in my opinion.

Something's got to give. Either you keep schools open, or do the shitty online teaching, or add on extra in-person teaching time elsewhere when the winter is past.
A full timetable of online lessons will not work for many people. Last year, all lessons in school were 100 minutes. When we did online lessons in January and for isolating groups, we did 60 minutes online and 40 minutes offline study with set work. Lessons were recorded. That worked much better. Less screen time all round, for a start.
Now we are back to 50 minute lessons and we will be expected to teach 50 minutes live. Which is fine - but it's exhausting for anyone to be staring at the screen all day, and some students won't be able to access the lessons for all the reasons I've already given.
I'll do the online teaching because that's my job - but it won't work for everyone.

I can believe there is a higher risk, but surely that would also be the case for some other workers like retail, ambulance, hospital staff, carers etc. But essential services need to keep running,

@DolphinFC if the government don't issue furlough then the employer just won't pay out they're not charities

We didn’t get any online lessons in the previous 2 lockdowns. Just a weekly online class catch up, which mine had to take turns to attend as they were at the same time (different classes) and we only have one computer. For that reason, we wouldn’t have been able to do live lessons.

Both DILs are ignoring online teaching next week four to six year olds its just too hard with all the melt downs for two days work , when they're supposed to have done a party one day and pantomime at theatre another.

There was never a requirement for live lessons, just remote teaching. What we did worked for most of our students - but most 11-18 year olds don't need supervision at home. Primary is very different.

@User2638483

I can believe there is a higher risk, but surely that would also be the case for some other workers like retail, ambulance, hospital staff, carers etc. But essential services need to keep running,

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveycharacteristicsofpeopletestingpositiveforcovid19uk/16december2021

Stats are here.